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I don't think someone who is just vaguely intrigued by the idea is ready for a whole9 challenge. That sort of thing works for heroin addicts, but I'm interested in willing compliance and a higher conversion rate.

@pokerwannabe - here's an attempt:

If I had to sum things up into one guideline, it would be to only buy foods that are on the perimeter of the grocery store. A few other clarifying points below:

- If it's not perishable, don't eat it.
- in food terms, this mostly amounts to lean meats, vegetables, eggs, nuts, seeds, berries, few starches and very little/no sugar.
- If you already eat dairy don't cut it out, but if you don't eat dairy don't start now.
- Frozen vegetables are ok in my book, as are spices and seasonings, both of which are not on the perimeter of the grocery store.
- Cereal, bread, pasta, etc are to be avoided. Brown rice and steel cut oats are ok, but don't go overboard.

This will probably mean that your diet will have more protein, lots more fat, and way less carbs than you are used to consuming. That's ok - you'll be fine. You might feel a little weird for the first couple of days as your body adjusts to "WHERE'S MY SUGAR??? RRRAAAAAWWWWWRRRR" but it goes away quickly.

How's that?

Thank you! That helps a bunch.

What about fruit and legumes? Some places say eat one but not the other, some say both are fine.

Thank you! That helps a bunch.

What about fruit and legumes? Some places say eat one but not the other, some say both are fine.

Legumes are technically grains and high in carbohydrates.

Fruit should be fine, although a lot of fruit is sugary, but you have to get some carbs from somewhere.

Legumes are technically grains and high in carbohydrates.

Fruit should be fine, although a lot of fruit is sugary, but you have to get some carbs from somewhere.

Legumes are high in carbohydrates? What? For something like black beans, you're looking at 14g of digestible carbohydrates per 130g of food weight. For something like lentils, it's about 24g of digestible carbohydrates per ~200g of food weight. Both of those figures are comparable with a vegetable like Kale - pretty ridiculous to call that high in carbs IMHO.

That's pretty significantly lower than the vast majority of other form of carbohydrates both in terms of ratio and significantly in terms of the glycemic index of the food and the insulin response that they promote.

This is a pretty good writeup on the arguments that strict Paleo advocates use against digesting beans: http://www.paleo-diet.co/2010/09/beans-and-paleo-dieting/ - it's one of the areas where I take significant issue with the logic and rationale behind the Paleo diet and generally think that people are starting witha position (beans are bad) and attempt to use pseudoscience to present their rationale for that conclusion.

Rob

Thank you! That helps a bunch.

What about fruit and legumes? Some places say eat one but not the other, some say both are fine.

If you're looking for balance, I'd look to limit the fruit to during and immediately after exercise and as an occasional treat - it's easy to overdo - and I wouldn't worry too much about eating too many legumes (w/the exception of peanuts, maybe). I can tell you that in general it's pretty hard to overdose yourself on beans from a carbohydrate perspective (a full can of black beans is ~45g of carbohydrates - about the same amount as a large banana, but significantly more filling), and from a insulin response perspective, your body will produce a very slow response in general to meals that have beans (especially when combined with lean proteins and other vegetables).

45g of carbohydrates - about the same amount as a large banana

Isn't a banana around 30 carbs? I have this program called calorie king and it list the nutrition facts for many places that you can go out to eat (mostly medium to large chains) and also most things that can be purchased at the local grocery store, in fact I have yet to find something not listed in there and I have an older version. anyway it list a large banana at 31.1g of carbs and a medium at 27g of carbs. Just sayin

Isn't a banana around 30 carbs? I have this program called calorie king and it list the nutrition facts for many places that you can go out to eat (mostly medium to large chains) and also most things that can be purchased at the local grocery store, in fact I have yet to find something not listed in there and I have an older version. anyway it list a large banana at 31.1g of carbs and a medium at 27g of carbs. Just sayin

Depends on what you mean by large, IMO. Type-1 diabetic here so I've been forced to memorize these things and I'd say that 75% of the bananas that people buy nowadays qualify as much larger than a typical "serving size."

Per 100g you're looking at 23g of carbohydrates - I just weighed a medium banana (slightly smaller than average size you see at the supermarket) and it was 143g. A ~136g banana is 31g of carbohydrates. It's going to be a YMMV situation as I'm guessing produce sizes vary greatly based on where you are, but I'd err on the larger size when it comes to foods, and tend to weigh most of my foods on a food scale because I've found programs like calorie king to be too general and also found most people to be terrible at estimating serving sizes.

And like I said in the original post, it's about the same as a large banana. It's actually ~42g of carbs in the beans, IIRC (doing this from memory), and a US supermarket "large" banana usually amounts to about 38g in my experience. Every 9g of carbs I guess incorrectly on amounts to 40pts in my blood sugars, so I'm usually fairly accurate when it comes to guesstimating these things, though obviously not perfect (some foods, like pizza, are near impossible, so I just don't eat them).

Rob

Legumes are high in carbohydrates? What?

1/2 cup of black beans has 28 grams of carbs... That seems high to me, even with the high fiber content slowing your carb digestion, you are still digesting 28 grams of carbs... They also have high Lectin content. But they do have amazing protein value.

I would rather eat beans than bread/rice/pasta anyday...

1/2 cup of black beans has 28 grams of carbs... That seems high to me, even with the high fiber content slowing your carb digestion, you are still digesting 28 grams of carbs... But they do have amazing protein content.

I would rather eat beans than bread/rice/pasta anyday...

Dunno where you're getting your nutritional info from, but the black beans I have (S&W and Trader Joe's) both have 14g of digestible, 20g total, for 1/2 cup. Same here: http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/legumes-and-legume-products/4284/2

Rob

I forgot to mention the Lectin content in beans in my post

That Rob guy is pretty smart IMO

That Rob guy is pretty smart IMO

Yea bro... He's also probably way more ripped than me... And more beardly/caveman looking

I've found programs like calorie king to be too general and also found most people to be terrible at estimating serving sizes.

I am going to say for now that I disagree with the first part of this statement, but that may change I have limited experience with this program so far used it some last summer, got off track from my diet and have no picked it up again so I can't say I have worked with it a lot but I am getting there. Anyways I noticed that there are quite a number of options with "natural" foods such as fruits and veggies for serving sizes basically because you can use your measurements from your scale and type the into the program. Or you can select a predetermined size from their list (not sure how accurate it is, and the banana size is done out by inches so they must use a average for the weight?) but I checked out your 100g figure and we were spot on with the carb amount if that means anything at all. The redetermined sizes might be a little misleading. I was looking at buying a food scale today do you have any recommendations? I am going to be a college grad in a few weeks but I don't have a job lined up yet so I can't be spending a ton on things so a air on the cheap side if you have any suggestions?

I agree 100% with the second part of that sentence though. I read somewhere that what we get for servings in a restaurant can be 3x the size of what a typical meal should be. So imagine how many people clean their plate before leaving especially when they pay 30+ dollars for a meal they could have made at home for 4 or 5 bucks and had left overs for 2 or 3 more meals?! I use to love eating out and don't get me wrong it's still nice once and a while (no dishes, I hate dishes and so do all my roommates apparently) but its tough to be able to make good healthy choices when eating out and on top of that the bill leaves me crying after on most occasions.

Sorry for the derailment and for basically starting a pissing contest

Yea bro... He's also probably way more ripped than me... And more beardly/caveman looking

I AM PALEO MAN

I AM PALEO MAN

LOL

I forgot to mention the Lectin content in beans in my post

Yeah, the lectin count is one of those debates that is still ongoing because there are so many different types of lectins (referenced in article I posted above) and there are basically 0 human studies as far as what those do, let alone what the remaining lectin count is after beans have been soaked. I can't really pretend to be able to weigh in much about the health concerns of lectins alone but I don't feel that the argument has been given much weight on the Paleo side - I find that most people who are strictly Paleo just tend to say the word lectin and hope I go away when I'm arguing with them.

Rob