General Discussion Poker Forums

any poker players here who also day trade?

i had a conversation at dinner today about some ex poker players are now day traders and doing much better financially (they were doing just fine as poker players also).

if you're a good poker player would you most likely be a good day trader? which has more risk? what are the benifits/cons? difficulty in picking up. and all this in relation to poker players.

anyone who has a lot of experience in this, i would very much like to hear more. i almost feel like i'd enjoy doing both, do one when i need a break from the other.

Honestly being a trader ain't all that. Now if you are managing a fund or investing yourself that's cool but getting paid a commission to place an order isn't all it's cracked up to be. I'm glad I changed majors. Much happier now. Still plan on applying my knowledge though & continuing to invest.

I used to trade futures and let me tell you its more stressful than poker. If you are really good at it there are buckets of money in it. I was a broker as well, and Pancho is right it isn't that great. Placing orders for customers who are going to lose their money is like working in a sportsbook. The key to trading is a BIG bankroll. Big, big variance. There are alot of similarities though. In fact money management principles are very similar, and that got me hooked into poker.

I used to trade for a big firm but would not day-trade for my own account. I invest instead, eternity buy&hold for interest and dividends.

There are similarities to day-trading: firing up your price feeds and trading platforms versus poker client/hud/PT. Randomness of future events (variance). Risk management, etc.

But I prefer poker. Fewer (random) variables to worry about, one can more easily "control" the environment. Also leverage is better and easier to utilize if you have a decent WR and want to eke out a modest living. In both you are your own boss and it can be very very stressful if you solely depend on either one. If you have no background in the markets how can you expect to make any money long term when many people who have the background and do trading for a living with all the resources provided by, say GS, JPM etc, struggle?

I still would assume it is easier to do the transition from finance to poker than vice versa, in general. Why not play poker as you do and not day-trade but swing-trade instead. Look it up, it doesn't need constant monitoring.

(Disclaimer: all IMO of course + my case is special because I've been around for a long long time and am set, thus only would like to take out a couple of grand a month from poker for walking around money, at some stage. I do not require much and am very humble in my expectations. But I think it is do-able.)

I used to trade futures and let me tell you its more stressful than poker. If you are really good at it there are buckets of money in it. I was a broker as well, and Pancho is right it isn't that great. Placing orders for customers who are going to lose their money is like working in a sportsbook. The key to trading is a BIG bankroll. Big, big variance. There are alot of similarities though. In fact money management principles are very similar, and that got me hooked into poker.

i have no idea if my analogy is correct cuz i actually know close to nothing about trading, but poker seems a lot less risky. is my analogy correct when i'm thinking trading is acting correctly on trends and patterns sort of like acting correctly on player tendencies and patterns (he's a nit so i'll bet, bet, bet) but without the "insider info," something good just happened in this company, i should invest (i have pocket AA i should raise) or a top executive just passed away i should sell (there's a four flush, i might have to fold my 2p).

would a trader laugh at how much help we are getting in our decisions? (we also get to see all our cards and some/most of theirs. am i completely misinformed in my little info i have about trading?

I used to trade for a big firm but would not day-trade for my own account. I invest instead, eternity buy&hold for interest and dividends.

There are similarities to day-trading: firing up your price feeds and trading platforms versus poker client/hud/PT. Randomness of future events (variance). Risk management, etc.

But I prefer poker. Fewer (random) variables to worry about, one can more easily "control" the environment. Also leverage is better and easier to utilize if you have a decent WR and want to eke out a modest living. In both you are your own boss and it can be very very stressful if you solely depend on either one. If you have no background in the markets how can you expect to make any money long term when many people who have the background and do trading for a living with all the resources provided by, say GS, JPM etc, struggle?

I still would assume it is easier to do the transition from finance to poker than vice versa, in general. Why not play poker as you do and not day-trade but swing-trade instead. Look it up, it doesn't need constant monitoring.

(Disclaimer: all IMO of course + my case is special because I've been around for a long long time and am set, thus only would like to take out a couple of grand a month from poker for walking around money, at some stage. I do not require much and am very humble in my expectations. But I think it is do-able.)

i will check out this swing trading you mention and also from the looks of the posts, i'll stick to poker lol.

Yeah I lost money on shares in the past and there's no way to 'grind it back'. Or if you find a good investment, months/years to make a profit.

With poker, you can control things...stop playing...fold etc. There is so much more control than competing with Credit Suisse etc.

I am considering tobbaco stocks though - more people smoke during recession and as the world's economies are going that way, maybe it's a safe bet?

I agree with Ulkis. Invest don't trade. Currently have most my $$ tied up in real estate. Wish I had more $$ to buy now that the market is depressed for real estate though. Best time to BUY!!!

I am considering tobbaco stocks though - more people smoke during recession and as the world's economies are going that way, maybe it's a safe bet?

Don't know too much about the market but I think BATS was gaining from September to the start of 08 I think its coming back towards its peak again. Be warned though smoking is in decline in the west. It used to be a defensive market but since various ad bans (speaking from the UK - billions of £ were wiped out during the last advertising setbacks) things don't look so smooth anymore. Anyway I'm sure you'll do your research

Well, actually you have much more information available as trader, compared to a poker hand. The point is to interpret this data the right way and find the perfect timing.

Poker doesn't seem less risky too me, the major difference might be that you can't move down a limit in trading and grind it back. There's some kind of rake when you place your bets that will eat up everything at the lower limits so to say.

You need a much bigger bankroll and the variance might be even higher than in poker, and probably you need to invest more time into it until it becomes profitable.
So, if you already invested that much time in poker, no need to start something new wich consumes much more time than poker, if that's even possible.
And the market is crappy nowadays, pretty much like in poker. The competition gets tougher as banks cant do anything they want without any form of regulation anymore. They had to apply some ethical principles into their business wich are familiar to every 3yr old, but not the financial industry so far.
It will change though as banks will find their new loopholes and then you can be rich, i mean really really rich in a matter of weeks.

A variance upswing in daytrading, with the proper bankroll means you don't ever need to work again in your life.

Finally, there's no variance in daytrading, I just named it so the poker guy understands it. Variance in daytrading might be a lack of knowledge and therefore can be avoided. Even though it get's impossible at one point to follow everything.

i heard from some ppl that took an investment course in the umd econ department that day trading is unprofitable for individuals due to the rake...anyone have thoughts on this?

I was a poker player for 3 year, a options day trader for 2. I now invest only in LEAPs as it is much less time consuming/soul sucking. As with poker, I would not get involved as a trader unless it is something you love. Staring at candle charts and crunching Theta decay for 10hours to make a 27min play isn't for the faint of heart. Also start up capital needed is waaaay more for trading because there is no low limits. Yes, you can invest small amounts in low/high risk trades but after broker fees and market maker kick back you'll be broke pretty fast. (Imagine playing 1-2 poker with a $5 rake you must pay before you enter the pot and a $5 rake as it gets shipped to you.)

A variance upswing in daytrading, with the proper bankroll means you don't ever need to work again in your life.

Finally, there's no variance in daytrading,

This is flat out silly and wrong. Without getting into it, if you are trading for a living, as with poker, you will need to go to work everyday and you will never be hitting homeruns. As for no variance, I implore you to watch a professional day trader for a day and see how you feel about it at the closing bell.

Market's going back up, jump on it! Like others have mentioned, I would just invest though. Check out Zach's #1 Rank Stocks, I believe they avg'd 27% compared to the S&P500 10.5% since it's inception.

If it's your first time, I would recommend stop losses (just like you would in poker ) on your stocks so you aren't going paranoid checking them everyday.

I can not add anything to this, but I have been hoping to pick up my first book on the stock market in the next few days. Any suggestions from anyone? Anyone reccomend a different route other than books (i learned a lot from them when it came to poker, might be my way to learn? Any tips for the total drooler?

Trading For A Living is an awesome book and will help your poker thinking aswell. Stay away from programs or systems that tell you what stocks to pick. Learn basics from books and if its something your really into get a mentor.