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HUHU LHE vid - sweetjazz and PH


PygmyHero

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Joined 08/2007

Hey everyone, I've recently been making efforts to learn how to play HUHU LHE better. sweetjazz has been kind enough to help me out a little bit and we made a video together. Check it out here.

Also, to anyone who is considering hiring sweetjazz as a coach, I highly recommend him. Watch the video and I'm sure you'll find he's extremely knowledgeable.

Lastly, a big thanks to Mike for all the time and effort he put into this!

Posted over 2 years ago

iplaylimit

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2397 posts
Joined 04/2007

Hand #1: I agree that turn is probably a check, but I'd be very tempted to call a blank river. You're giving him all those ropes.

Hand #2 (10 min, yes they spent 10 min talking about half a hand): I do think there is merit to betting the flop. You aren't calling a bet flop or turn are you? Also some worse hands are calling if you bet. There are players who make bigger mistakes if you bet this flop I just want you to be aware of this.

14m: JTo Mucking flop is better imo. After a few minutes SJ explained it pretty well (21m)

38m: ZZZ I'm out. May continue later...

Posted over 2 years ago

darkhorse

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Joined 10/2007

Hand 1: Agree with the turn check. I don´t hate the flop raise though. It´s probably not costing us anything equity wise and we get to take a freecard and make good river decisions. Maybe it´s a play we should do at least some of the time with our type of a hand? Is there any other hand that you would rather make the free card raise with? Ax or Kx? Or do you always have top pair+ (maybe middle pair) and what... semibluffs?

Posted over 2 years ago

darkhorse

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Joined 10/2007

Hand 2: I would be hesitant to call a river pot sized bet but after thinking about some I think river should be a call. We need 33% chance of having the best hand to call. I would discount sronger 9x from villains range since he had no problem going for value in last hand with middle pair. But weaker 9x and most 3x (he probably folds bottom offsuit 3x hands pre flop though). So we would only need about 2-3 bluff hands for us to call. If we at least call Kx some of the time in this spot would be good. And also there is that meta-game value of a river call.

I agree villain has equity on a turn bluff but he can also discard 9x or 3x from your range once you just check the river, no?

I see you noted on your opponent that he made an "hopeless" river bluff. Actually as played all the way down I think his river bluff might fold out more then 50% of your range.

Posted over 2 years ago

darkhorse

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694 posts
Joined 10/2007

14:00 - JTo

I like your flop call even though it´s super thin. You are in position and a few good things can happen:
- He can check a turn card 7 or better if he donked with middle- or bottom pair. (and you get that info which is good for future hands)
- You make him commit more money on his bluff or semibluff (good meta-game value)
- A jack or ten is semi-golden since he has not shown a top pair donk yet.
- Backdoor straight draw.
But I certainly don´t hate a flop fold either... either way it´s close.

Actually you said some good things there at the end sweetjazz! I think a flop fold might be slightly better until we know he can stab flops with any two or check the turn a bunch. I forgot about the J or T of spades making our life miserable.

Posted over 2 years ago

sweetjazz3

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Joined 02/2007

ipl and darkhorse, thanks for the comments and hope you will have more.

For hand 1: I generally don't like raising many flops at all versus flop donkers because I think their strategy tends to be flawed in that they fire turn bets at a much too high frequency (often 100% or close to it). So I think you are generally better off calling any hand that is not an immediate fold and assessing the turn card. Against a tougher, trickier opponent, I would not mind a flop raise with this hand some % of the time.

Hand 2: I probably misspoke a bit when I said it was a "hopeless" bluff. I meant to say it was a bluff with a hopeless hand (no showdown value). A truly "hopeless" bluff would be betting something like Q4 (or K4!) on that board, because it has a bit too much showdown value. I'd definitely check a 9 or a 3 on the river as played a fair amount, because I think inducing has more value than value betting in general, especially because a lot of limpers would bet Kx on that flop for protection / they feel compelled to bet when they think they have the best hand / who knows why.

As far as the river call with Kx, I don't really know what to do versus an unknown. I mean, it's generally kind of silly to pass up bluffing chances in position on the flop and turn and then bluff on the river, though of course there are many villains who do this kind of thing. Given that many opponents don't check back made hands (either weak ones because they are scared / want to induce / don't think they have value, or strong ones to trap / induce / balance their checking range) very often either, I think it might be a good call as a default. To me the more important thing is that 8-10 more hands into the match you should hopefully have processed enough of the information available about your opponent to make a much more informed decision. There are some opponent types where I'd snap-call Kx there after checking and others where I'd snap-fold Kx.

Posted over 2 years ago

iplaylimit

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Joined 04/2007


As far as the river call with Kx, I don't really know what to do versus an unknown. I mean, it's generally kind of silly to pass up bluffing chances in position on the flop and turn and then bluff on the river



You can say the same thing replacing "bluffing" with "vbetting"

So I just see the board thinking he can't have much and call Jhigh (maybe with a kicker)

Posted over 2 years ago

darkhorse

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Joined 10/2007

I'd definitely check a 9 or a 3 on the river as played a fair amount, because I think inducing has more value than value betting in general, especially because a lot of limpers would bet Kx on that flop for protection / they feel compelled to bet when they think they have the best hand / who knows why.



Ok, I think this holds less true at my limits, 10/20. I don´t think I see people bet flop K high all that often but rather check twice as he did. So I would bet any 9x or 3x on the river. And then I would only have Kx (or perhaps a Qx hand) to call a bluff with.

Posted over 2 years ago

muscleandmoney420

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Joined 01/2008

great vid, yall should do a series. please make more.

Posted over 2 years ago

iplaylimit

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2397 posts
Joined 04/2007

And can anyone make a ipod version of this? Thx

Posted over 2 years ago

iplaylimit

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2397 posts
Joined 04/2007

Hopefully I'm not being too critical, I get to think a lot watching this video and it surely benefits me a lot.

46m: T4o. River call is highly dependent. If villain barrel always you have a surprising (to me) profitable call. OTOH if villain check back the river ever w/o it being a screwplay then your equity is pretty bad and you should fold. Villain being not-quite-known yet I don't hate a call to make a point that you're not folding easily.

48m: J3s. I'd bet given that the first time he limped he checks flop and turn too, so you're not inducing much here. Obviously it's a style thing and if you're trappy more than I do then it's fine to check too.

55m: JTo. I think calling and folding are both substantially better than raising, as there really are not that many Qx/Kx combo in his range and it's questionable if he's folding. And calling makes you look like a fish.

58m: A8o. Everytime I decide what you should do with this kind of hand, I'm wrong. So next time you're not sure ask me and do the opposite.

1h: QJo. Bet the river, I agree with SJ's assessment.

1h6m: AJo. I think your river play should be either call or r/f. Villain will make many bad calldowns from a tilting opponent but you don't have enough value to r/c.

1h10m. A5o. I really dislike you giving up so easily. You have a really strong hand against a random hand, so you should either check to induce or bet for protection/value. The pot is small but I just think you give up too easily, especially as your opponent isn't really that passive and may be tilting.

I tried to explain why SJ saying "this hand is too strong to bluff and too weak to call" doesn't really make sense, but it just gets too complicated quickly.

Hopefully I will continue tomorrow or beyond.....

Posted over 2 years ago

darkhorse

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694 posts
Joined 10/2007

25m - T9o

I have hard time figuring out if you guys liked the turn follow up bet or not IF we hadn´t improved to a double gutter. The turn follow up bet needs to succeed 20% of the time for us to make it and I´m on the fence.

As the board panned out I don´t mind the turn bet but one could consider making a turn check/call instead (!) if we think he peeled tight on the flop and often delay raise the turn for value. Also this might gives us some free rivercards against some Qx hands.

Posted over 2 years ago

darkhorse

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Joined 10/2007

31:30 - Q3s

Would you guys consider calling the turn to see if the spade draws comes in or to maybe make some exploitable raise/folds (for value) on some rivers?

Posted over 2 years ago

darkhorse

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694 posts
Joined 10/2007

55m - JTo

I think the timing tell you pick up is great. It excludes any air or even Ax, Kx type of hands. So I put him on 7x, 2x, or FD. I wouldn´t discount 7x as Sweetjazz would. If you are fond of timing tells I actually think a flop check behind is fine (since it is a good board not to c-bet 100%).

As played I think it´s an easy turn call and river fold.

Posted over 2 years ago

darkhorse

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694 posts
Joined 10/2007

58m - A8o

Nice hand! I sometimes check behind this flop but you played it very well.

Posted over 2 years ago




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