Secret HQ Poker Forums

Regarding c-bet ranges and if they are polarized or not:

If we don't have any read now, is it reasonable to assume that
- an aggressive V.s c-bet range is probably polarized
- a passive V.s pobably isn't
- a good reg's probably is

and how do you think we can apply this to 3bet pots? Is it reasonable to assume that
- a bad/fishy players c-bet range in 3bet pots probably still isn't polarized
- a good reg's is so read dependend that there is no way to assume anything, except maybe that he tends to play a bit more straightforward?

Regarding c-bet ranges and if they are polarized or not:

If we don't have any read now, is it reasonable to assume that
- an aggressive V.s c-bet range is probably polarized
- a passive V.s pobably isn't
- a good reg's probably is

and how do you think we can apply this to 3bet pots? Is it reasonable to assume that
- a bad/fishy players c-bet range in 3bet pots probably still isn't polarized
- a good reg's is so read dependend that there is no way to assume anything, except maybe that he tends to play a bit more straightforward?

I think your question is a little too wide to be answered. Too many depends. One thing I can say is that there is no connection between being a good player and having a polarized range. It we are expected to c-bet will all our air it is likely a super bad idea not to c-bet all hands that are ahead of villain bluff catching range.

Hey guys,

this is probably going to be a stupid question as I can imagine what the answers will be, but is this book worth it?

I'm currently playing 50NL and grinding up a bankroll. I take the game seriously and want to improve and move up through the stakes in due course.

It seems like a pretty good offer when you consider the coaching sessions as well and I'm wondering if it's worth the investment. And what makes it worth the investment? Also, what form do the coaching sessions take? Video review, hand history, theory sessions, sweats?

Geek - I will just tell you my results and let you judge for yourself.

I crushed in December, and was primarily grinding 50nl, but taking shots as high as 400nl if I found fish. I got CRUSHED in jan and feb, lost my mojo, and was basically a breakeven or losing player @ both 25nl and 50nl.

Within 2 weeks of getting the book, I was up ~22bi @ 50nl in under 10k hands, and I am now taking shots at 100nl, and 200nl if the table is extra tasty. I am playing super confident right now. I can say the difference in my game is 2 fold - 1. I now have a good fundamental standard cbetting/3betting strategy, and I know how to adjust better based on the villain and board texture. 2.) I dont seem to be losing as many huge pots, because I can hand read much better now.

What the book is: A solid starting strategy on how to play all of the standard spots - and how to adjust based on your opponent, as well as some pretty crazy good theory stuff. It is also a 'workbook' with tons of exercises THAT TEACH YOU HOW TO SOLVE POKER PROBLEMS ON YOUR OWN. The book basically gives you a framework from which to approach the game.

What the book isnt: There are no starting hand charts, not tons of hand examples. Rather than a theoretical situation played by the coach, you get a question from him about how to solve a situation, and you are expected to work through it on your own.

The book alone isn't a silver bullet, but if your willing to put in the work, it is awesome.

As far as price, I have paid 100$ for standard 1 hour sessions with well known DC coaches before, and gotten nothing NEAR the value of this book. I learned more in a week than I did in my entire 9month DC subscription so far, and that is no knock on DC.

Geek - I will just tell you my results and let you judge for yourself.

I crushed in December, and was primarily grinding 50nl, but taking shots as high as 400nl if I found fish. I got CRUSHED in jan and feb, lost my mojo, and was basically a breakeven or losing player @ both 25nl and 50nl.

Within 2 weeks of getting the book, I was up ~22bi @ 50nl in under 10k hands, and I am now taking shots at 100nl, and 200nl if the table is extra tasty. I am playing super confident right now. I can say the difference in my game is 2 fold - 1. I now have a good fundamental standard cbetting/3betting strategy, and I know how to adjust better based on the villain and board texture. 2.) I dont seem to be losing as many huge pots, because I can hand read much better now.

What the book is: A solid starting strategy on how to play all of the standard spots - and how to adjust based on your opponent, as well as some pretty crazy good theory stuff. It is also a 'workbook' with tons of exercises THAT TEACH YOU HOW TO SOLVE POKER PROBLEMS ON YOUR OWN. The book basically gives you a framework from which to approach the game.

What the book isnt: There are no starting hand charts, not tons of hand examples. Rather than a theoretical situation played by the coach, you get a question from him about how to solve a situation, and you are expected to work through it on your own.

The book alone isn't a silver bullet, but if your willing to put in the work, it is awesome.

As far as price, I have paid 100$ for standard 1 hour sessions with well known DC coaches before, and gotten nothing NEAR the value of this book. I learned more in a week than I did in my entire 9month DC subscription so far, and that is no knock on DC.

The book is not directed at a certain level. It is about poker and it is likely that it is a little too advanced for SSNL.

Most videos and all other poker books I have ever read fail at forcing the reader to think. IMHO that is a huge mistake since poker is all about thinking.

But hey.. it seems that at least some SSNL players can handle the truth

Thanks very much for that Donk Hero.

To be honest, 300 euro seems a bit steep to me for a book but when you include the two coaching sessions it seems like good value.

I would imagine I'll be purchasing this package in the not too distant future.

Just got my copy today, and haven't been able to put it down.

Never mind question previously in this space. I figured it out.

(There are no stupid questions. There are, however, stupid people who ask questions.)

Just got my copy today, and haven't been able to put it down.

Never mind question previously in this space. I figured it out.

(There are no stupid questions. There are, however, stupid people who ask questions.)

The original question was not stupid.

The book is not directed at a certain level. It is about poker and it is likely that it is a little too advanced for SSNL.

Most videos and all other poker books I have ever read fail at forcing the reader to think. IMHO that is a huge mistake since poker is all about thinking.

But hey.. it seems that at least some SSNL players can handle the truth

I don't think so. I mean some of the concepts may be unnecessary or not quite as appliccable at 25/50NL, but its definitely not too advanced.

I mean you said it yourself -- you are teaching players how to think for themselves. If they can understand what you are teaching, then they should be able to apply what they have learned to any stakes.

edit: IMO this is the perfect place to start for someone who has watched DC videos/participated in forums. It skips over the absolute basics and gets right into the good stuff. I'm just about to begin the 3B section and I'm giddy.

double edit: The book also makes you run gooooot, so buy it for that if nothing else. First DonkHero is up 20 something BI's, and I just recorded my first +8 BI day

I have started reading the book and see that some people would like to do some sweats etc. I am in on that. I would also like to add some hands that have given you trouble or some spots that are confusing and go over them as well. I'm on skype so anyone interested give me a shout or text me.

This book does teach you to think for sure and I have already added a chapter in my notebook to go over only this book.

Improva, would you prefer questions concerning content to be posted here or on the dashboard? I just have some math stuff that I am unsure about and would like clarified a bit?

Sweats - Pay it forward style - So, I have the book, obv, and one lesson with Oliver under my belt. Been crushing 50nl (and spewing a little back @ 100nl). If anyone is playing @ the same limits and wants a sweat, let me know. Always cool to make some new poker buddies, and I think I can help out, especially @ 25 or 50nl (even though I doubt anyone else here is playing that low).

On the flip side, if any of you higher limit guys are feeling charitable, and wanna sweat me playing 100nl, id love some input.

I typically play 3-4 nights a week from like 10p-1a pacific us time. Skype and mikogo all set up.

PM me here and ill get back to you with contact info.

Hey hero. I'm in just skype me as I play during those times alot as well.

I have started reading the book and see that some people would like to do some sweats etc. I am in on that. I would also like to add some hands that have given you trouble or some spots that are confusing and go over them as well. I'm on skype so anyone interested give me a shout or text me.

This book does teach you to think for sure and I have already added a chapter in my notebook to go over only this book.

Improva, would you prefer questions concerning content to be posted here or on the dashboard? I just have some math stuff that I am unsure about and would like clarified a bit?

- Questions here.
- Suggestions in the dashboard.

Bring'em on!

Question 1- My math is pretty rusty so I'm trying to figure out what some of this means. I see how to figure for x. Since we are solving for x and the equation must equal zero this is a breakeven calculation? X is a breakeven at 3.48. That is the preflop callers maximum bet size that he can call on the flop and breakeven if we stack off every time? So if our abc strategy is bet half pot or (4) we make him make a .52 mistake on the flop?

Is that right and its ok to stack off on these dry situations? I'm thinking aa on a j62 brd and he has 87. We make our money on the times he peels and if we go broke it is more than offset by the number of times we get flop calls?

So if we bet 5, per the question, the pf caller's ev would be 6.63 per the adjusted post dividing by 47. Correct? If that is the case and we do stack off every time why would the pf caller's EV go up? I thought it would be a lesser number because we already set his breakeven point to call at 3.48?

Question 1- My math is pretty rusty so I'm trying to figure out what some of this means. I see how to figure for x. Since we are solving for x and the equation must equal zero this is a breakeven calculation? X is a breakeven at 3.48. That is the preflop callers maximum bet size that he can call on the flop and breakeven if we stack off every time? So if our abc strategy is bet half pot or (4) we make him make a .52 mistake on the flop?

Is that right and its ok to stack off on these dry situations? I'm thinking aa on a j62 brd and he has 87. We make our money on the times he peels and if we go broke it is more than offset by the number of times we get flop calls?

So if we bet 5, per the question, the pf caller's ev would be 6.63 per the adjusted post dividing by 47. Correct? If that is the case and we do stack off every time why would the pf caller's EV go up? I thought it would be a lesser number because we already set his breakeven point to call at 3.48?

Well I think I could have put that a little better in the book. Question 1 is actually an illustration of several very fundamental concepts in poker.

1) There are situation which is +EV for both players in the hand. The 4bb c-bet allows us to stack off without making it -EV for us. It is still a +EV game for him. EV_him + EV_us = dead money in the pot (in this case 8bb).

2) In this situation we assume that we get all in on the turn every time villain hits his 5 outer. But if we assume that we have a good chunk of bluffs in our range and villain folds a lot when he does not hit on the turn we are printing $ and his EV drops below 0 - simply because we never has anything the times he actually hit.

I dunno if I managed to answer something completely different.

Well I think I could have put that a little better in the book. Question 1 is actually an illustration of several very fundamental concepts in poker.

1) There are situation which is +EV for both players in the hand. The 4bb c-bet allows us to stack off without making it -EV for us. It is still a +EV game for him. EV_him + EV_us = dead money in the pot (in this case 8bb).

2) In this situation we assume that we get all in on the turn every time villain hits his 5 outer. But if we assume that we have a good chunk of bluffs in our range and villain folds a lot when he does not hit on the turn we are printing $ and his EV drops below 0 - simply because we never has anything the times he actually hit.

I dunno if I managed to answer something completely different.

1) its plus ev for both of us? not the bet size, but because of the dead money in the pot. right? What does the 3.48 number signify? What we would need to bet to make it unprofitable for the pf caller to continue if there wasn't 8bb in pot already? Is any bet bigger than 3.48 stack off-able? He can call any bet under 12.44 and still be profitable if he gets our entire stack every time?

2) The 5bb bet would be an even more profitable bet size for us wouldn't it? He is going to call more money when behind, but he still needs those outs to improve and those outs % don't change.

ie- If we could bet our whole stack every flop that would be better for us if he called. The pf caller's EV should go down as we bet more on the flop and he calls, not go up. something like -75

So basically if we bet more than 3.48 we can stack off profitably in this situation. But since we aren't going to stack off (with our bluffs and even semi weak but ahead on the flop hands) we are making money every time he calls more than 3.48. Since that is only profitable for him IF every time he hits he stacks us. Since we are folding on the turn a % of the time when he hits, his call is -EV. Since we make money every time he calls then we are choosing a smaller bet size to make sure that he does call. This isn't a psb because we want him to call everytime? right? Although the bigger the bet we will call the more money we make right?