Secret HQ Poker Forums

Being OOP sucks and this hand is a fine example.

What pocket pair/overcards would you 3bet shove PF?

As played, what kind of flop and turn would make you go' with the hand? One overcard flop? Monotone? Ace high flop? What if an Ace or King had turned. Would you double barrel?

Do you mean 3bet and then 5bet shove if he 4bets me? Or just 3bet shove?

I'd 3bet probably a range like 99+, maybe AJs, AQ+ and maybe KQs as well. I'd 5bet ship QQ+ and AK because I think he's far more likely to flat and play postflop if I 3bet him than 4bet bluff me. I think he will pretty much only 4bet standard for value, as I haven't seen villain do anything yet that would lead me to believe otherwise.

Regarding the other questions, I'm not sure. I think I'd almost definitely barrel the ace as it easily allows me to rep AdXd or some random bluff c/r that backed into top pair.

Hey guys, don't know if anyone still checks this thread, but I made a video of me 4-tabling 25NL on Full Tilt, and it would be great if some of you could check it out. Cheers!

EDIT: forgot link.

http://www.deucescracked.com/member_videos/6231

nice one, ill download it and check it out, i hope im not on there being owned :-)

Here are my thoughts so far, only about half way in. To be honest seems a lot like watching me play

Lynch mob video

The hud didn’t appear after the first ten seconds??? But it sounds like a good setup

1:16 QJs, With that many callers I wouldn’t mind a 3bet, in some spots after you call you could get a squeeze out of the blinds and then your stuffed. Once you flop good,I think your bet may be a little high, we have the board crushed, don’t make it too hard for them to call you 1 time

1:40 78o, we flop open ended but not all our outs are clean, all the clubs are action killers and the 10 gives us the worse end of it, I think we can dump this on the flop and save some money. What do we do if the 5c comes out and the dude bombs 2 more streets??

So far I haven’t seen you take any notes, take one on the villain in the 78o hand, “bet out in limp pot with FD, c/c turn bet, c river when miss”

2:19 AQo – do you ever consider just flatting here against villains who are raising every button?

3:12 K7s – not sure if 3 betting here is good with the short stack behind, if he is competent he should shove and collect the dead money, once he flats your 3 bet and then donks out for min, your in a bloated pot with not much to do and then everyone else gets to see you 3 bet with Kx suited on the button, shitty spot, I get into them all the time. I agree with raising the donk min bets, although I don’t think you need to make the raise size in proportion to the pot, make it $1.50 it will have the same effect

7:16 – you comment about raising more pre flop to make more dead money, I think at 25nl we can get away with raising more with our big hands and less with the junk. Its just me but I have problems playing in bloated pots when im cold called with marginal hands that flop badly

8:57 – take a real note, I would say his min raise is for value

10:24 55 – you raise pre and check it down, I think we need to cbet here or the turn once its check through, I didn’t see it come up on the HUD but worthwhile checking to see what he had in the HH

13:29 – happens to me all the time, I think there is merit to leaving. If your up 2 buy ins after 100 hands, sure its only $50, but its also 200BB which is better. I find if I run good I assume it will continue, im not Ivey and it doesn’t

27:46 – A8s if we have boatloads of equity then a check is good too, on a board like that on a tight table who is coming with us?

Very nice, LynchMob. I'm downloading right now and will post comments later.

I'm watching this now, but will have to post my comments later, sorry. Lots of interesting spots, though.
No HUD makes it difficult to judge actions and I think you should try to keep the recording in a larger size. Letters are hard to read. Did you do some post compression?

Thumbs up for making the recording.

OK, I've watched the first 10 minutes of your video and I think I've got enough notes to post. I've put in a lot of questions and some thoughts that may be wrong. Hope this is ok.

First of all, I think you've got a solid style and your explanations are very good. A shame that the HUD didn't show.

Regarding tableselection. As you said yourself, the tables seemed bad with many TAGs and Nits. Nits doesn't have to be bad though, as you'll have many 3-bet opportunities. Playing the tables for the sake of the video is ok.

1:08 Table 4, KJs on BTN. UTG ($76) opens, MP calls, CO folds, Hero overcalls. "Hero: Nice suited hand that can flop trips".

Being IP with a suited broadway is very nice, but proceed with care as you can very easily be dominated. Play it to flop a FD, OESD or 2P+ hand.
Flop: QQ6 (??). BB, UTG, MP all checks, Hero bets 2.25-3.00, all folds.

I realised afterwards, that your hand might have been QJs, in which case your crushing the board. Since everyone checked, you might have checked as well, intending to induce a bet on turn. If someone holds a worse (or better) Q, the money will go in anyway (I guess?).

1:32 Table 2, Flopping OESD (87o on J96s flop) in BB, vs MP limper and SB caller. SB donks 0.75-0.72, Hero calls, MP folds. Turn is A. SB chks, Hero bets 1.5-2.14, SB calls. River is third heart Kh. SB chks, Hero talks about this being a good bluff card, but decides to chk behind. SB shows K4s for busted club draw, but 2nd pair no kicker.

You should really have considered bluffing the river an amount that looks like a value bet. Take your time and then bet half pot or slightly more. It only needs to succeed more than 25% of the time to be profitable. If you get called and loose, you'll have information on the opponent AND you might be called more light when you have a good hand.

2:13 Table 1, AQo in BB. BTN open 3x, SB folds, Hero 3-bets to 2.50, BTN folds.
Nice 3-bet. BTN probably has a wide opening range.

2:16 Table 3, Q7s in SB. BTN opens 3x, Hero 3-bets, BB and BTN folds.

2:42 Table 1, 76o in SB. Folded to Hero, who raises 3x to see how BB reacts to steals.

I like the steal attempt, just proceed with utmost care if called. I've just checked my latest 500 SB steal opportunities in HEM and am sad to see that I'm slightly loosing! I'm taking down the pot PF most of the time, but then I'm getting frisky and losing a larger opt, giving me a net loss.

BB calls and flop is KJ3r. I'd say two high cards is neither great nor bad for c-betting. You have initiative from raising PF, but you're also OOP. Consider BB's PF call range. I'd say Kx, Jx could very well be in this range. Overall I'd sometimes Cbet this flop and then be done, but I'd also often just check and give up. You tried to steal PF and it failed. Just give up and move on...

If you really wanted, you might consider a chk-raise?

3:10 K7s on BTN. CO opens 3x and Hero 3-bets to 2.50. "I'll try to get him play back at me later in this session". SB snap cold-calls, CO folds. Flop is a very dry: J62r. SB min-bets, Hero raises to 4.25, SB calls. Turn brings Hero a FD with a 6s. SB min-bets again. Hero calls, getting awesome odds. River blanks with a 9d. SB chks, Hero chks, SB shows, J8s for 2 pairs.

I like the 3-bet. Interesting post flop play, but definetely put a note on this guy. Would be awesome to have position on him.

7:46 Table 3. KTs 4x open from UTG. This is normally too loose for my taste, especially if I have been

running bad. I'm opening KJs+, ATs+, 55+, AJ+, KQ from UTG. Again, table conditions could make this an open (You said table was a little too tight, so its probably ok). Typically, if I've got some good reads on table and either;

A) MP, CO and BTN doesnt' 3bet much and usually folds to UTG raises.
B) SB and/or BB calls to much and pays of light.
C) You are deep stacked with SB and/or BB (200 BB+ ?)

In this case I might open KTs. Often I'm adding SC's and some more suited aces.

I like the 4x opening size from UTG. Under normal circumstances my opening size is depending on position only; 4x from UTG, 3½x MP, 3x CO and from 3x to 2x from BTN depending on table dynamics.

BTN calls, blinds fold. Flop is J33s, pot is $2.24.

You say that you might be able to 2-barrel him off, if he just calls your Flop c-bet. Which range do you put him on PF when he just calls?

He min-raises your cbet, which I also normally hate. Imagine being in BTN's place. What would you do if you had a Jx hand or a 3x? In these situations I'm starting to think that min-raises is villain testing you out with either total air, overcards that missed or a smaller pair. I think re-raising him could very often win the hand as he would need a monster to continue. BUT.. this is where I'd like to have some kind of read or note on him. Could you think of any stats on villain that might make this a raise? (I'm only asking because it's easy to forget in the heat of the moment)

BTW, I think "inavacuum's" Yin and Yang series has a lot of these situations. Check it out, if you havn't already.

OK, I get it... You say that his PF stats indicate he's a weak passive type. Good fold then.

7:50 Table 4, 3x open from BTN w ATo. SB calls, BB 3-bets to 3.25 and hero folds.

I can't see BB's stats, but what kind of hands would you need to call with? Say, if BB is a

1) 12/10 nit ?
2) 24-18% VPIP TAG that 3-bets 5% ?
3) Finally a very aggressive TAG that 3bets/squezees 10-14% ?

I'm aware that post flop stat and tendencies also play into this, but do you have any clear cut strategy for calling 3-bets IP?

Thanks for making this video LynchMob. Did you watch it yourself? Any obvious leaks that you've been able to spot yourself?

Interesting discussion on raise sizing from different posistions, I would argue that you should raise less in early pos and more in late pos. I would then say that at 25nl we can get away with raising more with our strong hands and less with weaker/implied odds type hands

although I just press pot when I want to raise, so hey what do I know

Interesting discussion on raise sizing from different posistions, I would argue that you should raise less in early pos and more in late pos. I would then say that at 25nl we can get away with raising more with our strong hands and less with weaker/implied odds type hands

although I just press pot when I want to raise, so hey what do I know

Don't you think it's better to raise more from UTG where our range is on average much stronger than from, say, the button, where our range is much wider and therefore on average weaker? That's my thinking. Plus, as the UTG raiser you're less likely to bet 3bet than if you open on the button.

Don't you think it's better to raise more from UTG where our range is on average much stronger than from, say, the button, where our range is much wider and therefore on average weaker? That's my thinking. Plus, as the UTG raiser you're less likely to bet 3bet than if you open on the button.

Forgot to mention - raising larger from early position makes it slightly less likely we'll get called and have to play the rest of the hand OOP, and vice versa for raising smaller in late position.

OK, I've watched the first 10 minutes of your video and I think I've got enough notes to post. I've put in a lot of questions and some thoughts that may be wrong. Hope this is ok.

Good notes and questions, and I'll get to them later today hopefully. Need to go back and watch the session again myself and go over the hands in HEM before I can come up with the answers these questions merit.

but the whole point of raising from early position is that it known that our range is tighter/strong from there because we don't want to play OOP

my thoughts on the micros is that we should be taking any opportunity to make/save the extra BB or two where we can. I think its a combination of knowing if people are adjusting to our raise sizes, if they aren't then raise 4x every time you have JJ+ and 2.5 or 3 for everything else.

Also if we are opening a tight range UTG and we get 3 bet then its a good thing because we have to assume that our range is stronger, although this is villain dependent

Very good points and great discussion. I'd say that its VERY player dependent, almost more at lower stakes than (maybe?) higher (at least what I can see in medium stakes videos).

Regarding raising lower from BTN, I often even open 2x if I have two nits in the blinds. Something I picked up from Pokey's video from a now closed Poker Training site. Works great. If I get 3-bet I can fold and loose less. If I get called, I've got more leverage (Higher SPR) and can really put pressure on and maybe even get (implied) odds to draw.

You should offcourse adjust if the opponents start adjusting and playing back.

my thoughts on the micros is that we should be taking any opportunity to make/save the extra BB or two where we can.

I totally agree, so doesn't it make sense to raise less on the button as opposed to UTG, where our range is stronger and we get 3bet less?

If I get 3-bet I can fold and loose less. If I get called, I've got more leverage (Higher SPR) and can really put pressure on and maybe even get (implied) odds to draw.

Plus you can call a lot more 3bets in position against looser aggro players, as you have a much greater SPR and more room to maneouver, and you can start to play back at them a little more in 3bet pots.