High Stakes Strategy Poker Forums

KRANTZ --

This is probably a question asked too often on forums in general, but I'm curious to hear your opinion.

What sort of bankroll management/requirements did you use when moving up stakes? I've asked my coach (DJ Sensei) about this, and I'm interested in hearing other people's opinions.

I know there is no perfect rule set, and I'm less concerned about the risk of ruin type math than I am about knowing when I should be moving up to take shots.

I feel completely comfortable with my game mentally to move up and take shots at 5/10 (I currently play 2/4 and 3/6 as my main game), and I certainly wouldn't play on scared money or anything like that.

What's my jumping off point buy-in wise to take some shots at 5/10? How did you progress up through the limits?

i had horrible bankroll management when i started, so i'm not a great example, although i practice good bankroll management now, obviously.

i'm all for taking controlled shots - if you feel like you can hang in a higher game, you probably can. so give it a shot when the games are good. hopefully you run well and stay there!

hey Krantz, what it do?

3 questions for you-

1)[quote]
Not sure how to answer the first question, really. The strong players who are able to succeed at 10/20 vs good players who can't make the move up from 5/10 are usually able to balance their hand ranges better (not in a game theoretic sense but in the exploitative sense), [quote]

Can you explain the difference between a "game theoretical" balanced range and an "exploitave" balanced range?

2)What kind of things do you do to improve your game currently, and how has that changed throughout your career? Since the player pool generally decreaces as you move up, do you study PT stats less now?

3)What limit did you start out with, and what was the hardest move up in limits for you? What did it take for you to "break through" to that next step?

hey Krantz, what it do?

3 questions for you-

1)
Not sure how to answer the first question, really. The strong players who are able to succeed at 10/20 vs good players who can't make the move up from 5/10 are usually able to balance their hand ranges better (not in a game theoretic sense but in the exploitative sense),

Can you explain the difference between a "game theoretical" balanced range and an "exploitave" balanced range?

2)What kind of things do you do to improve your game currently, and how has that changed throughout your career? Since the player pool generally decreaces as you move up, do you study PT stats less now?

3)What limit did you start out with, and what was the hardest move up in limits for you? What did it take for you to "break through" to that next step?

If you play an unexploitable game, you can never lose. But exploitable strategies based on mistakes your opponents make are the most profitable strategies to play in poker.

I still study PT stats, they're just as important. They're just not as useful as they are at lower stakes where the information is a lot more telling. Nothing to do with the size of the player pool, though.

I started at 1/2 online, shot around before I found my groove at 2/4 and higher. The hardest move up was 10/20 - everyone was very very very aggressive in the old Party games. At least more aggressive than I was used to. I guess I finally broke through when I realized I didn't need to be fancy - I should just play tight and solid and with a lower variance style. FPS is the exception and not the norm. I needed to take the players I admired off pedestals and realize that they're beatable - while still respecting their play.

read on 2p2 today you said:


KRANTZ suggests playing sometimes without PT/HUD to hone intuition.

"Lower the blast shield and use the force"


best thing i ever read!


Also, seriously this forum with you answering questions has already improved my game

thanks dude - i'll probably let this thread run through most of january at this point

Hi,

For 5/10+ 6max, I'm having a tough time with tt and jj when facing a 3-bet with a 100bb stack. I'm unsure if I should 4-bet or flat call. If I 4-bet I have a tough time folding when 5-bet because players shove ak and i've committed a decent amount of my stack. But i don't like stacking off with jacks preflop either. If I flat call and get a low flop it becomes stack time again which still puts me in a bad spot. I think folding is too weak.

Can you give me a general idea of how you would play this in and out of position facing a:
-competent lag
-tag
-donk 40/8 type player with a 60bb stack, 100bb stack

(assuming you've been fairly aggressive but not out of line)

A similar spot I'm having troubles with is when i have tt or jj and i 3-bet someone and they 4-bet me. How would you play this spot facing the same types of players listed above.


Thanks

Hi,

For 5/10+ 6max, I'm having a tough time with tt and jj when facing a 3-bet with a 100bb stack. I'm unsure if I should 4-bet or flat call. If I 4-bet I have a tough time folding when 5-bet because players shove ak and i've committed a decent amount of my stack. But i don't like stacking off with jacks preflop either. If I flat call and get a low flop it becomes stack time again which still puts me in a bad spot. I think folding is too weak.

Can you give me a general idea of how you would play this in and out of position facing a:
-competent lag
-tag
-donk 40/8 type player with a 60bb stack, 100bb stack

(assuming you've been fairly aggressive but not out of line)

A similar spot I'm having troubles with is when i have tt or jj and i 3-bet someone and they 4-bet me. How would you play this spot facing the same types of players listed above.


Thanks

As a preface to responses, what are your typical 3 and 4 bet sizes w/ 100bb eff. stacks?

Hi,

For 5/10+ 6max, I'm having a tough time with tt and jj when facing a 3-bet with a 100bb stack. I'm unsure if I should 4-bet or flat call. If I 4-bet I have a tough time folding when 5-bet because players shove ak and i've committed a decent amount of my stack. But i don't like stacking off with jacks preflop either. If I flat call and get a low flop it becomes stack time again which still puts me in a bad spot. I think folding is too weak.

Can you give me a general idea of how you would play this in and out of position facing a:
-competent lag
-tag
-donk 40/8 type player with a 60bb stack, 100bb stack

(assuming you've been fairly aggressive but not out of line)

A similar spot I'm having troubles with is when i have tt or jj and i 3-bet someone and they 4-bet me. How would you play this spot facing the same types of players listed above.


Thanks

This is a very tricky question and there is no well-defined answer, but I can help you figure out how to think about this, that's for sure.

Firstly, Messiah, my 3-bet size is usually 3x the raise size in position and slightly bigger if I'm OOP. My preferred 4-bet size is between 25-28% of my stack, but 4-betting is such a mindgame that I don't default to any one size. I make my bet size the size that will best exploit my opponent in that particular moment.

So let's first look at what to do with TT or JJ when you 3-bet someone and they 4-bet you. You need to shirk off the tag/lag/donk classification system a little here. Each TAG is different - you can group them generally but in reality, each specific player reacts to your aggression in a slightly (or sometimes drastically) different way, even though they may have the same stats. So if you get 4-bet here, first look at stats - in GENERAL, lags will 4-bet bluff more than tags, so immediately, getting it all-in against lags will generally show more profit than getting it in vs tags. But this specific LAG could have a very very tight range for 4-betting, where a certain TAG might be 20/15 and absolutely love to 4-bet bluff you all the time. Does that make sense? You need to pay attention to hands you're not involved in and take copious notes to get a good feel for this kind of stuff.

Now if you're the one to 4-bet, you should never fold for 100bb. Don't 4-bet just to make the hand easier to play. 4-bet for a reason - either to induce action or because it is more profitable than calling. Think about how your opponent will react to it before you make the move and if you can anticipate that, you'll know whether or not 4-betting is the best play. And think about the considerations I wrote about in the preceding paragraph.

Always be putting your opponent on a range of hands and think about how the whole of that range responds to any action you make. Great chess players can see dozens of future moves unfold in their head; card players only need to really see preflop, flop and turn.

Firstly, Messiah, my 3-bet size is usually 3x the raise size in position and slightly bigger if I'm OOP. My preferred 4-bet size is between 25-28% of my stack, but 4-betting is such a mindgame that I don't default to any one size. I make my bet size the size that will best exploit my opponent in that particular moment.

I was actually interested in skandalous' typical bet-sizes as it would help him with the thought process and responses from you/everyone.

Also, in all of OP's situations cold call % is a HUGE tool for me in analyzing ranges and what to do in these situations.

I noticed you never mentioned cold calling to 3-bet. Is this an option both in and out of position or is this a 4-bet or fold spot. And if you do cold call and get a 9 high board, is it standard to get it all in?

When i 3-bet i use the same sizing as you but my 4-bet is slightly larger(30-33%).

When you saw Namco 3-bet to 140 and call whitelime's 4-bet in position with AQo for 160 more you seemed to be implying that he was calling lightly. If I invest 140 preflop in position and face a reraise of only 160 more I might be tempted to call with worse hands. Is this a mistake? I understand that this bet sizing allows you to 4-bet bluff often and get action with your big pairs but it seems to me that if oop you will be getting called more often than getting folds. What is the game plan on the flop if oop and getting called (assuming AQo). What type of boards will you c-bet and what is size of c-bet. What type of boards will you check fold?

Thanks

Couple of questions.

First, do you and whitelime have separate beds or do you just do one king-size, Bert and Ernie-style? If the second, which one of you is Bert and which is Ernie?

Second, what is your biggest obstacle at the table mentally? I'm not talking about dealing with aggression or anything like that, but more of the intangible stuff like tilt, fatigue, dealing with beats, etc.

Thanks man.

First, do you and whitelime have separate beds or do you just do one king-size, Bert and Ernie-style? If the second, which one of you is Bert and which is Ernie?

LOL ..

You have lot of crazy college stories, right Smaptastic?

I have a lot of even crazier law school stories. Future lawyers are some messed up people. But this isn't about me. It's about Krantz, and whether or not his roommate gets angry at him for eating cookies in bed.

99% of law school students are douchebags. 1% i can chill with. (currently taking break from law school-1 yr to go)

Krantz, i'm 3betting and getting 4bet a lot. Sometimes I actually (wow) have a hand when i 3bet and they 4bet bluff 56ss, i shove KK and they call.

My question is, how do you know when to 5bet bluff ai or make some shove with AT or something. In your video you say you've lost a ton of money 5bet bluffing...should we stay away from doing this, or is there big metagame we're missing here...