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50NL Zoom : 3 bet pot / overpair face a raise

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MaskedManQc

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611 posts
Joined 02/2011

I am more of a FR player, my main game being 100NL FR Zoom.
I am tempted to switch to 6 max and played a short session at 50NL Zoom FR.
I am posting a few hands, trying to adjust to higher aggression frequency

In this hand, I only have 14 hands on the 3 bettor, so nothing reliable here.
Flatter is 24/19 over 21 hands so far. 3.0 agg frequency, for what its worth. He showed a lot of aggression so far otf (67%). Still a small sample size....

Preflop is definitely a call and the flop is good for me. When I face a raise OTF, I have few concerns. We are somewhat deep and we will ahve to play oop. Flatting seems like a bad option as there will be a lot of bad turns for us, so it seems to me like a fold or shove situation. Seems like he may have a set but he probabluy has hands like A8 to AQ of Heart maybe even KQ :hear: or even any 98s. I really don't think he ever have QQ+ here or even AKs. What do you think of my the range I gave him? Seems like its probably very close, but I am not sure shipping will be EV+.


Edit : My flop cbet size is bad, I should probably bet something around 15-16$ OTF on such a drawy board. My cbet size might have induced something....



As already mentionned below, just posted the wrong HH. Here is what I have on the fly. Will post the good one when I'll be back home.

Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1848120
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BTN: $76.52
SB: $81.04
BB: $57.70
Hero (UTG): $144.52
MP: $26.50
CO: $70.30

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is UTG with J Club J Spade
Hero raises to $1.50, 1 fold, CO calls $1.50, BTN calls $1.50, SB raises to $7.50, 1 fold, Hero calls $6, CO calls $6, 1 fold

Flop: ($24.50) 4 Heart 7 Heart 6 Spade (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $12, CO raises to $27, SB folds, Hero ????

Posted 10 months ago

MaskedManQc

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611 posts
Joined 02/2011

Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1848120
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BTN: $76.52
SB: $81.04
BB: $57.70
Hero (UTG): $144.52
MP: $26.50
CO: $70.30

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is UTG with J Club J Spade
Hero raises to $1.50, 1 fold, CO calls $1.50, BTN calls $1.50, SB raises to $7.50, 1 fold, Hero calls $6, CO calls $6, 1 fold

Flop: ($24.50) 4 Heart 7 Heart 6 Spade (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $12, CO raises to $27, SB folds, Hero ????

Posted 10 months ago

Steppin Razor

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Section 9
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MaskedManQc

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611 posts
Joined 02/2011

The player that 3 bet checked to me and the only player behind flatted my prelfop open and the 3 bet. Looks like an easy value bet from there....

This is not a donk bet!

Posted 10 months ago

Noreaga

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Steppin Razor

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Section 9
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Joined 12/2009

The player that 3 bet checked to me and the only player behind flatted my prelfop open and the 3 bet. Looks like an easy value bet from there....


What ranges are you giving them for calling, raising, and folding the flop?

Posted 10 months ago

MaskedManQc

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611 posts
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Easy fold on the turn.



You are looking at the wrong hand, as mentionned, the hand posted in the original post isnt the good one. Will fix it.

Posted 10 months ago

MaskedManQc

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611 posts
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What ranges are you giving them for calling, raising, and folding the flop?



He raises with 2 pairs, maybe straigh draws, a lot of flush draws (ATs, AJs, AQs), he could definitely have a set. He probably also raise some pairs with a draw. Don't know if he could have 4Heart5Heart or something.

I don't know if he could ever raise the flop with a BDFD, something like AQ andAJ offsuit with the A of Heart or something.

He probably calls with 88-TT, something like that. He might only flat with QJHeart and TJHeart

He probably 3 bet most of the time pre with QQ and AK.


If my range assumptions are good, this is a way behind or slightly ahead situation.... wich is a fold

Posted 10 months ago

Noreaga

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304 posts
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You are looking at the wrong hand, as mentionned, the hand posted in the original post isnt the good one. Will fix it.


I think both pre and flop are fine.
When the btn raises it`s pretty tough, the size is definitely important though.
Him cold calling, and overcallin a SQ indicates that he`s probably a fish.
And when he raises this flop his range is super wide, something like:
33-TT,AXhh,KhQh,KhJh,KhTh,QhJh,QhTh,Kh5h,Qh5h,JhTh,J9s,Th9h,T8s,9h8h,97s,85s+,75s+,64s+,54s
140BB deep, i would not consider shoving even though you might be a slight favorite, fish usually don`t like folding anything with solid EV, and our FE is therefore probably close to Zero.

Posted 10 months ago

MaskedManQc

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611 posts
Joined 02/2011

I think both pre and flop are fine.
When the btn raises it`s pretty tough, the size is definitely important though.
Him cold calling, and overcallin a SQ indicates that he`s probably a fish.
And when he raises this flop his range is super wide, something like:
33-TT,AXhh,KhQh,KhJh,KhTh,QhJh,QhTh,Kh5h,Qh5h,JhTh,J9s,Th9h,T8s,9h8h,97s,85s+,75s+,64s+,54s
140BB deep, i would not consider shoving even though you might be a slight favorite, fish usually don`t like folding anything with solid EV, and our FE is therefore probably close to Zero.



I only have 21 hands on him, but he was 24/19, so not sure he is a fish. Considering that, can we assign him a tigher range than you did? The number of draws we will assign him is very important here as the will affect a lot or equity...

As for the raise size, I will specify later when I'll have access to the original HH.

And if we call, we will probably have less than a pot size bet left OTT. Seems like we will still have to fold to a lot or turns he if he shoves. Are you calling if turn is a Q or a K? If its an A? We won't like any Heart or 5 either.... even a 3 and a 8 are not great cards for us.

Posted 10 months ago

Steppin Razor

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Section 9
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I only have 21 hands on him, but he was 24/19, so not sure he is a fish. Considering that, can we assign him a tigher range than you did?


if we're going to assume he's not a fish, then we should take into account what your perceived range is, because he is more likely to be raising based on fold equity than a fish would.



He raises with 2 pairs, maybe straigh draws, a lot of flush draws (ATs, AJs, AQs), he could definitely have a set. He probably also raise some pairs with a draw. Don't know if he could have 4Heart5Heart or something.

I don't know if he could ever raise the flop with a BDFD, something like AQ andAJ offsuit with the A of Heart or something.

He probably calls with 88-TT, something like that. He might only flat with QJHeart and TJHeart

He probably 3 bet most of the time pre with QQ and AK.


If my range assumptions are good, this is a way behind or slightly ahead situation.... wich is a fold


Also, if you break these down by combos, you should see what percentage of his range you are value betting against to determine if it's a good value bet.

Posted 10 months ago

Noreaga

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304 posts
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I only have 21 hands on him, but he was 24/19, so not sure he is a fish. Considering that, can we assign him a tigher range than you did?


Spoon feed us a stat at a time Smile
In that case it`s almost always a set or a mean combo draw.
So against:77-66,44,AhTh,Ah9h,Ah8h,Ah5h,Ah4h,Ah3h,Ah2h,Th9h,9h8h,5h4h we have just 31% equity.
Folding would be best here imo.

Posted 10 months ago

RUAOK

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94 posts
Joined 08/2011

would 4 bet call it off here as a standard, TT and AQ is closer think JJ is clear enough, as played would fold flop

Posted 10 months ago

MaskedManQc

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611 posts
Joined 02/2011

if we're going to assume he's not a fish, then we should take into account what your perceived range is, because he is more likely to be raising based on fold equity than a fish would.



I probably have a lot of middle PP in my perceived range here. Probably 88-JJ and some ATs-AQs, KQs, something like that. I can hardly continue with 88-JJ oop in a 140bb stack situation and I am almost readless on my opponent.


Also, if you break these down by combos, you should see what percentage of his range you are value betting against to determine if it's a good value bet.




Well, I am ahead of a lot of draws, problem in this exact spot is that if he is good, he will put me in a tough spot and I will hardly ever realize my equity. He should know that I never have AKs and QQ+ here and a set is a really small portion of my range.

Posted 10 months ago

MaskedManQc

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611 posts
Joined 02/2011

Spoon feed us a stat at a time Smile
In that case it`s almost always a set or a mean combo draw.
So against:77-66,44,AhTh,Ah9h,Ah8h,Ah5h,Ah4h,Ah3h,Ah2h,Th9h,9h8h,5h4h we have just 31% equity.
Folding would be best here imo.



And I am not even sure he flats A2 to A5s. Depend on the dynamic and who is in the blinds. He might 3 bet it a decent amount of the time as a bluff. Sadly, I don't have any info on his 3 betting tendencies so far.

I also think that, considering what we know on him already, folding is probably the best option.

Posted 10 months ago




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