Jonnolimit
29 posts
Joined 07/2011
Krankie72
92 posts
Joined 06/2012
I'd be folding TPTK to an overbet all in on turn or river, particularly against someone who appears - over a small sample size - to be a nit and is raising UTG. Small hand= small pot type thing, there should be better opportunities to get your money in later.
Against a fish with higher vpip it's an easier call at 5 NL.
Posted 10 months ago
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BeatItPlease
417 posts
Joined 10/2010
To be honest I'm folding the flop. Do you really expect him to cbet this flop with air? Even if so: How many combos of missed overcards does he even have in his UTG opening range?
As played it's a trivial fold on the river. Overbets are never a bluff.
Posted 10 months ago
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Gizardpuke
2130 posts
Joined 09/2008
i'm yet to be convinced that flatting AKs vrs any opponent is a good idea. it brings up too many bad spots than good. i may need convincing.
we've floated PF, flop and turn, where i feel that a 3bet PF would give us more information as to his range, and potentially save us some money. i.e. fold to 4bet from nit.
i'd rather spend 70c and 3bet him PF. any raise and call is suspect and care from there should be taken.
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vclx
27 posts
Joined 05/2011
Any small pp from villain would fold to a 4x 3bet, if villain's tight, and you can fold to a 4-bet, knowing you're behind. If he calls, I would proceed with caution: he still can call pre with QQ or JJ, hoping for a safe flop, and bet here. otf, I would 3-bet/fold or just fold to a bet.
As played, otf he can have a set, overpairs, not really suited connectors (imo he wouldn't bet those 4x utg) or even broadways. So, it's a fold otf. I think, if you want to flat call AKs, do it against a looser opponent, but I don't see how that can be a good thing.
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tawivseh
1 posts
Joined 06/2012
calling flop is not so good as it seems.
But as played I would raise turn for value against Kx and all draws.
check back heart\spade\ Qx\Jx river
1/3-1/2 valuebet on Ax\Kx river not spades
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zooroaster
225 posts
Joined 01/2011
i'm yet to be convinced that flatting AKs vrs any opponent is a good idea. it brings up too many bad spots than good. i may need convincing.
we've floated PF, flop and turn, where i feel that a 3bet PF would give us more information as to his range, and potentially save us some money. i.e. fold to 4bet from nit.
i'd rather spend 70c and 3bet him PF. any raise and call is suspect and care from there should be taken.
Re the flatting AKs being bad:
Does it not matter that we have position? Against someone this tight there UTG range is going to be very specific. Would you agree that the UTG range is comprised of around a 50/50 split of his good PP's but also the big Broadways/suited Broadways that we are ahead of?
Sure he will cbet some of the time but if we float, can't we take it down it down when the nit shuts down to a blank turn and doesn't have the overpair?
I say this more in a general terms and don't take account how the villain responded in this hand.
Posted 10 months ago
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Gizardpuke
2130 posts
Joined 09/2008
but when we flat PF, we're not IP. BTN is still to act. he can easily call with marginal hands now as he's getting better pot odds to do so. we'd 3bet it to make sure that never happens. just because it hasnt happened this time doesnt make the flat PF with AKs the right play (not that 3betting is either i might add).
atm, we're still betting / raising for value.
Posted 10 months ago
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MI5 Mark
1731 posts
Joined 06/2011
Flatting AK makes our decisions tougher post flop but given the right villan it is certianly optimal. If he stacks off with AJ then get it in pre.
Fold flop imo, we dont have much equity
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Jonnolimit
29 posts
Joined 07/2011
Re the flatting AKs being bad:
Would you agree that the UTG range is comprised of around a 50/50 split of his good PP's but also the big Broadways/suited Broadways that we are ahead of?
.
I don't think he ever calls with worse than AK OOP... thats why I don't three bet... He'll fold the broadways and he'll call with QQ+.. and even if we still got a positional advantage, we have less card advantage... and probably even 4 bet those at somepoint... I am not thrilled of getting it in with AKs against a nit UTG
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Frank959
214 posts
Joined 02/2012
I don't think villain here was 3 barrel bluffing because of a missed draw, I think he 3 barreled because he has a big hand. You even said yourself he wasn't so active. Also I think we should be 3 betting AKs here in position. Your just giving an open invitation for the BTN, SB, and BB to enter the hand with broadway cards, suited connectors, or small pocket pairs.
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Steppin Razor
Section 9
2237 posts
Joined 12/2009
Your just giving an open invitation for the BTN, SB, and BB to enter the hand with broadway cards, suited connectors, or small pocket pairs.
So?
Flat seems ok, but fold flop and fold river.
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Frank959
214 posts
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AycheDubbleYou
233 posts
Joined 06/2012
I think it sounds very contradictive to say the UTG NIT is going to or is 3 barreling light.Nits rarely barrel,especially on this flop/turn/river vs a call down IMO.
I agree with the 3b action as being the optimal play here PF,even if it vs an UTG nit.we cant allow the button or the blinds in the hand at such a good price.
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zooroaster
225 posts
Joined 01/2011
I think that the reasoning of the BTN, SB, BB Sq'ing us doesn't totally merit a non flat of the hand. If one of those scenarios does happen, we can still have position on the PFR UTG and see his reaction. This would allow us to play perfectly IMHO. The UTG villain is after all on a somewhat small sample ie he could've had a run of cold cards, be OOP to aggro players, etc. He isn't a bonafide super nit at this point. He could be raising a hand like T9s or 77. Because of this, I think he isn't going to 4bet a sq 100% of the time and when he doesn't we can back raise...or we can flat:
If the board comes down a dry rainbow say Qxx, our position allow us to see what the UTG will do. Granted 80% of the villain's range will cbet but I don't think we can't float at least on street. There are enough of competent players who will know that a cbet will yield a profit a good majority of the time. Alas, us thinking DC members will float some of the time. OOP and as a nit, we can expect a fit/fold reaction. So after the flop where surely nearly all of the villain's range will be cbet, the true strength of his hand can aptly be determined to some degree. The great thing about a nit is his range is so small, we won't have to assign massive ranges to him. He may even x 99-JJ, AQs, KQs, on said board. So really if we get to the turn after a dry A, K, Q board we can expect to see where he really at. I think this player type is rarely barreling w/o equity.
If an A, K does hit the flop on a dry board, there are so few "nut" hand combo's here that our equity is very favorable.
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