Micro Stakes Online NL Poker Forums

Party 0.2/0.4$ No Limit Texas Hold'em - 5 Players

SB: $6.85
BB: $5.20 - VPIP: 24, PFR: 9, 3B: 3.0, FCB60, WTSD20
CO: $9.71 - VPIP: 57, PFR: 22, 3B: 4
Hero (BTN) ( $3.94 USD )

Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero is BTN with 5:hearth: 6:hearts:

UTG folds, CO calls $0.4, Hero calls $0.4, SB calls $0.2, BB checks

Flop: ($0.16)[/b] 6 8 6

SB checks, BB checks, CO checks, Hero bets $0.12, SB folds, BB calls, CO folds

Turn: ($0.40) J

SB checks, Hero bets $0.28, SB calls

River: ($0.96) T

SB checks, Hero?

So my question to you, fellow DC'ers, is two fold;

a) Pre-flop do you raise here to isolate CO and create more dead money. CO has been very loose passive player who gives up most flop/turn. Or do we call because our hand plays well in multiway pots and we have good implied odds. If you are of the calling persuasion, where is the cut off for raising?

b) Flop pretty well and flop and turn pretty standard I think, I should have bet pot on the turn and would like to hear if anyone would disagree with betting pot on turn as well? On the river however, do we bet here, essentially turning our hand into bluff to try and push him of a small ? He seems passive, and with a low WTSD so do we ever benefit from betting this river?

Thank you

(p.s. I couldn't get the built-in HH converter to work, just pasted from HEM2, anyone else experiencing this)

pre is fine.

id bet flop and turn is a must bet, they are calling with worse pair hands and on the turn a ton of pair+ spade hands. spade +gutshots etc

river is check.

I call pre and only iso raise If I have a big card in the hand that can make good top pair.

Why do you prefer potting turn? Doesn't seem too bad an idea though.

Dont try and bluff river against passive players who don't like to fold hands, especially flushes.

I call pre and only iso raise If I have a big card in the hand that can make good top pair.

Why do you prefer potting turn? Doesn't seem too bad an idea though.

Dont try and bluff river against passive players who don't like to fold hands, especially flushes.

Im not sure a flush is a big part his range so I think we can still get value from his pairs. I just wonder if we can ever push him off a medium . The problem with this player is he is never going to tell you of he has a big spade or not.

Im not sure a flush is a big part his range so I think we can still get value from his pairs. I just wonder if we can ever push him off a medium . The problem with this player is he is never going to tell you of he has a big spade or not.

I think assuming we can get value from his pairs, but folds from his medium flushes is a pretty bad assumption. He surely isn't going to call hands that are worse than he folds. Well who knows I guess but I doubt it.

Preflop is a call. I like a hand with more high card strength to isolate so I can flop top pair.

I think your flop and turn bets are ok. I'd check the river. My general rule against guys like this is value bet unless it looks to thin and then value bet anyway, but with a four flush on the board even bad players tighten up. Not enough I'd ever expect them to fold a flush though.

I'm actually a little surprised everyone is okay w/ just flatting this. I know the hand is very speculative and it is extremely poor at SD but we are also looking at this in the context of one the absolute best flops we can get. I see the CO is very loose passive (wish we knew the sample size on villain). Even though we are on the BTN, he seems like the main reason to enter this hand.

I may be wrong but unless we flop this well normally and we want to move the CO off a hand (assuming we get'em heads up), the fold equity goes way up when we have initiative. I also realize that being the stakes they are, we get a lot of call happy players but I kinda think its a bad habit to start to get into. The majority of the time we are going to flop bad, maybe a one pair hand and sometimes a draw but not enough to feel very good when we see an over card OTF or on a later street. The fact that we have position also is a good case for a raise IMHO. You might even get a lot of limp/folds from the villain depending on our image. I think its a raise/fold decision if we are going for dead money.

That being said I think I a large bet on flop/turn is good though not exactly pot although these players may not even notice the difference.

On the river, I think its just a check and only flushes or better call a river bet.

Btw: I know your converter was a little wacky but on the flop the BB calls but the SB shows up on the Turn/River...its suppose to be the BB there?

Also, what was your range for him and why didn't you think he could have a flush there?

@zooroaster

I think by limping here we can keep in the blinds and we are relying on implied odds instead of fold equity. My target here is not simply CO but SB and BB as well.

I think he could have flushes here, I just think its a small part of his range. I really struggle to put guys like this on a range though because he is so passive, I don't even think he will 3x AQ TT-JJ here.

I actually had to write out the hand and format it myself, so yes you are right, it should have been BB

@ zoo I hear what you are saying, but this is a guy that we probably don't have a lot of fold equity or at least not as much as we have against most villains. We really don't want to put ourselves in a spot where we have to cbet and barrel into a loose player with 6 hi.

At the same time it's also a villain that is loose enough he is more likely to put his whole stack in in a limped pot when we flop strong.

You may be right that he's going to limp fold alot. There are a ton of other hands that you can use for that though. If we are going to have any kind of calling range here 65s should probably be in it.

I concede that it is kinda close on the argument of limping/raising but like I said, I don't think this is something Fezoff should start doing. I just think limping especially on the button is very bad. I hear you when you say you want to keep the blinds in but I just think our equity is going to be so marginal most of the time while we wait for that "nice flop".

This seems like one of those concepts where we tell ourselves that "this hand plays great multi-way" and thus use it to rationalize a marginal, breakeven, or -EV play. There are just so many times where we are searching for a reason or two to convince ourselves to play "xx" hand. I do it myself.

It's kinda leveling ourselves and I just think we either should wait for a better hand/spot and maximize our greatest advantage when on the button: position

@zoo

What is your limping range then? And how would that change if it's a raised pot?

I'm rarely limp and if so its mostly in SB when I have multiple limpers. I guess I would do it in that spot w 22-55, low Axs, a couple Kxs maybe. Sure, I would put a couple of those low SC's and suited one gappers in that range as well. The dynamic would be important though where as I am obviously OOP and against loose passive and call station players such as the CO in your hand, where it would be difficult to bluff off a hand.

I would probably be flatting that type of hand in the blinds against someone with a loose to reckless steal range. There it would fall under my bluff catching range.

Keep in mind though, I play the micros just like you and am still learning the game everyday. Its just my opinion though I can't say for sure if its the right one.

Also, how much experience have you had with Pokerstove?

Maybe in review sessions plug some of these hands in. If you are heads up w/ the above hand to that CO, you only have 38% equity and if you get the blinds involved it drops down to about 20%.

This is of course without that great flop but pre. Play around with it.

Also, how much experience have you had with Pokerstove?

Maybe in review sessions plug some of these hands in. If you are heads up w/ the above hand to that CO, you only have 38% equity and if you get the blinds involved it drops down to about 20%.

This is of course without that great flop but pre. Play around with it.

Which is part of the reason I'd rather just invest 1bb to play the hand and maximize my implied odds.

Why make the pot bigger with 6 high?

We obviously see each others' points but still remain on our own side of the fence.

I don't think I would normally play the hand but if i did I would rather raise to move towards the higher equity. I will concede however, that probably both calling/raising is fine barring that we don't play the hand poorly post flop and try to get to creative and bluff all the times we miss.

Wait you wouldn't even play this hand?

We can argue how to play it, but 65s IP vs a bad player has to be profitable to play somehow.