Micro Stakes Online NL Poker Forums

Hey guys,

I' ve been playing for more than a year on Paradise Poker (Boss) and haven't seem much 4betting with worse than QQ, even that people would rather call. Mostly 4betting KK, AA. Now, I started playing on Stars and seen it done with a lot worse (not a big sample size).
Is it +EV to 4B get it in with AK preflop on 25NL? When you get 5B, you should probably be folding, but it's pretty awful to 4B fold isn't it? Just calling a 3B isn't a good idea probably with AK. It's better to call with JJ or TT imo. I know that this depends on you opponent mostly, but a lot of the times you are in this position vs a player with little reads or very few hands. At these times especially I'm interested what you do?

I'm posting 2 hands here and was wondering what your play would be.

Hand 1:

I decided to flat here on the button 5 handed. I like to call sometimes IP especially vs an UTG raise. And then the SB 3B, he should be doing this with a strong hand especially vs an UTG raise and a call?
What is you play here?

Poker Stars $25.00 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 1791965
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

SB: $24.51 - VPIP: 36, PFR: 23, 3B: 5, AF: 5.5, Hands: 47
UTG: $48.19 - VPIP: 32, PFR: 27, 3B: 1, AF: 1.8, Hands: 184

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BTN with A K
UTG raises to $0.75, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.75, SB raises to $2.75, 2 folds, Hero ??

Hand 2:
Here as well the BB 3B vs UTG raise and a call? What is your plan here?

Poker Stars $25.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1791967
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BB: $27.48 - VPIP: 30, PFR: 27, 3B: 13, AF: 1.5, Hands: 44
MP: $11.79 - VPIP: 36, PFR: 23, 3B: 5, AF: 5.5, Hands: 47

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is UTG with A K
Hero raises to $0.75, MP calls $0.75, 3 folds, BB raises to $3, Hero ??

Hand 1:4b/ stack off.
Hand 2: Flat call or 4 bet, either way

hand 1:
AKs is a 3bet here because by calling you give the blinds good implied-odds to get in the pot with speculative hands and pocketpairs. It is a 3bet for value because alot of worse hands from the UTG-range will call + you get the initiative in the hand.


hand 2:
I would call the 3bet, your hand is to strong to fold and by 4betting you are only isolating yourself against better hands. BB can 3bet this with AQ, suited Aces, QQ,JJ and you have blockers vs AA or KK so those hands become less likely. Since you hit toppair 1/3 of the time with AK you can go for value often on the flop.

I think you have to flat the three in both spots if villain are 4 betting QQ+. You are also being 3 bet from the blinds where 3 bet hand ranges are usually stronger. I get into all kinds of trouble with AK.

mic, he said that read only applied on boss. on stars he has seen looser preflop play

yack, this also means you should be 3betting the first hand and (happily) 4betting the second. play around with poker stove using the 3bet and 4bet frequencies you've observed.

here is an example: suppose someone 3bets 7% but only 60% of these combos are value hands that continue. you want to find out your equity getting it in against this range. the range i have selected for him is some version of the 'best' 4.2% of hands.

basically you have a +ev stackoff v their value range here given the dead money, and you make a lot of money v their 3b bluffs, since they fold away 9-12bb

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

801,358,272 games 0.000 secs 160,271,654,400 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 50.106% 38.23% 11.88% 306353280 95172708.00 { AKo }
Hand 1: 49.894% 38.02% 11.88% 304659576 95172708.00 { JJ+, AQs+, AQo+ }


Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

267,119,424 games 0.000 secs 53,423,884,800 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 52.528% 41.44% 11.09% 110685996 29627040.00 { AKs }
Hand 1: 47.472% 36.38% 11.09% 97179348 29627040.00 { JJ+, AQs+, AQo+ }

If you 3/4 bet anyone should you be willing to go all in? It depends on your opponent but if you 3 bet and they 4, folding is gonna be very costly and if you call you're going to need to hit. Will that be profitable?

If you 3/4bet fold with AK, then what is the difference between AK and 72?

If you 3/4bet fold with AK, then what is the difference between AK and 72?

I would never 4 bet fold AK 100bbs deep.

As far as 3 betting AK compared to 72, AK has blockers to AA and KK, and has more value against a 3 bet calling range.

If you 3/4bet fold with AK, then what is the difference between AK and 72?

You don't 3bet 72? Lol

If you're willing to 3 bet versus an opponent surely you must be willing to push versus their 4bet range and do it profitably? What other options do you have versus a 4 bet? Fold? Lose loads long term. Call? Hope to hit or you fold, if you wouldn't fold without hitting, why wouldn't you 5bet pre? I calling a 4bet hoping to hit top pair profitable?

Or of course you can 3bet knowing that they fold versus a 3 bet a lot.

I would never 4 bet fold AK 100bbs deep.

As far as 3 betting AK compared to 72, AK has blockers to AA and KK, and has more value against a 3 bet calling range.

Well my point exactly. If you are gonna 3-bet/fold AK you might as well do it with 72o as well

Well my point exactly. If you are gonna 3-bet/fold AK you might as well do it with 72o as well

Most players (25nl and below) will call (IP or OOP) with hands like small to mid pairs, big broadways, strong SCs, but will only 4bet KK+ and sometimes QQ, AK, so I don`t see a problem 3bet/folding AK pre. 3betting someone with 72o that HAS a 3bet calling range isn`t going to be good because you don`t have a playable hand postflop in case you get called.

I only agree that it is bad to 3bet/fold AK vs a player who DOES NOT have a 3bet calling range, then AK almost becomes the same as 72o.

You should be pretty happy stacking off with AK at 25nl 100bbs deep but it is very opponent specific. Look for their 3bet percentages by position. You will find a high percentage from the blinds from aggro players so against these its easy to get it in.

Against unknowns flatting is ok or calling 3bets, people play really bad at 25nl in 3bet pots so its worth practicing playing in them with something decent like AK.

Most players (25nl and below) will call (IP or OOP) with hands like small to mid pairs, big broadways, strong SCs, but will only 4bet KK+ and sometimes QQ, AK, so I don`t see a problem 3bet/folding AK pre. 3betting someone with 72o that HAS a 3bet calling range isn`t going to be good because you don`t have a playable hand postflop in case you get called.

I only agree that it is bad to 3bet/fold AK vs a player who DOES NOT have a 3bet calling range, then AK almost becomes the same as 72o.

I don't know, I've seen plenty of people at uNL happily stacking off with A4s 66+ etc. And let me just make it clear, I am not comparing 72o to AK, all I meant to say, albeit in a convoluted way, is that if automatically 3bet/fold AK then we there isn't much difference between the two hands. I suppose we agree but I might have been a bit confusing in my reasoning as a result of a serious case a of cabin fever

hand 1 4b/c or backraise shove depending on villains tendencies
hand 2 4b/c

dont ever 4b/fold or something like that with ak. the ev of your 4b/c involves the ev of when they fold + your potequity when you get it all in versus their range