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Ok another hand OOP. Hijack is kind of a standard laggy reg (27/21 over 180 hands), isolation-raising vs fish utg - so I have a pretty standard call w AJo in BB imo. I will of course call the flop bet on this board, but is the turn a call? If we should choose to call what do we do on the river?

Party Poker $50.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1783917
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MP: $50.50
CO: $11.25
BTN: $44.45
SB: $14.54
Hero (BB): $134.71
UTG: $22.25

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BB with A J
UTG calls $0.50, MP raises to $2, 3 folds, Hero calls $1.50, UTG calls $1.50

Flop: ($6.25) A 8 Q (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP bets $3.96, Hero calls $3.96, UTG folds

Turn: ($14.17) 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $8.98, Hero ???

I'd much rather 3bet/fold this hand preflop. Postflop I think ch/c flop and ch/f turn is a decent line here, unless we have a reason to assume that villain barrels light.

Actually depending on the fish I might be okay with your flat. Still also like 3bet tho.

I'd much rather 3bet/fold this hand preflop.

This is a mistake.

Vast majority of money you make in poker comes from playing against fish. By 3-betting pre you force the fish fold out his garbage and isolate yourself vs better hands. This is not the way to create a decent winrate.

Preflop
Very good flat.

Flop
Standard.

Turn
Imo you are facing a range that is more or less similar to this:

Board: As 8c Qd 9s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 27.183% 18.84% 08.34% 315 139.50 { AhJs }
Hand 1: 72.817% 64.47% 08.34% 1078 139.50 { AA, QQ, 99-88, A8s+, KsQs, KsTs, QsTs, AJo+ }

Key factors:
- How often does he barrel?
- How aggro is he? Do you think he is capable of bluff c-betting into 2 players OR of firing 3 barrels?

If he is honest OTR and likely to bluff barrel the OTT - you can safely x/c expecting him to be honest on the next street.
Without further information x/f in order to avoid making a big mistake OTR.

This is a mistake.

Vast majority of money you make in poker comes from playing against fish. By 3-betting pre you force the fish fold out his garbage and isolate yourself vs better hands. This is not the way to create a decent winrate.

I get that but there are tons of hands which play better 3-way anyway so I wouldn't mind turning AJo into a bluff here. If you think this is some terrible mistake then I think you are overvaluing this hand postflop.

First and foremost focus on targeting the fish. You have a decent chance of getting at least 2 streets of value on Axx, Jxx, KQT boards.

Questions for you:

1. What are you doing on preflop with ATs and A9s in the same situation?
2. If you turn AJo into a bluff, then where begins your value range?
3. Estimate laggy reg's iso range IP vs fish and check how you're doing vs it with AJo

First and foremost focus on targeting the fish. You have a decent chance of getting at least 2 streets of value on Axx, Jxx, KQT boards.

Questions for you:

1. What are you doing on preflop with ATs and A9s in the same situation?
2. If you turn AJo into a bluff, then where begins your value range?
3. Estimate laggy reg's iso range IP vs fish and check how you're doing vs it with AJo

I feel like question 1 and 2 are related so I'll just answer them together.

ATs and A9s are a call for me. I don't think there ideal to flat but depending on the fish gonna be okay. I think a hand like A4s is probably better then A9s. Anyway where my value range begins I assume you mean what hands I would no longer 3bet/fold. again highly dependant on villains stats or the fish, but on average AK/JJ+ is a decent value range in this spot.

I think the main point we disagree about is whether AJo is to strong to 3bet as a bluff here, we can argue about this dreaming up scenario's endlessly where it would be good or bad. So in the end its all relative.

I don't know exactly what hands the laggy reg iso raises MP vs utg, 27/21 isn't super loose tho but I do think I dominate some Ax hands in his range with AJo. but pure hand value isn't super important here its more about potential and playability. Against a good reg its gonna be very hard to play, if you have a solid grasp on his ranges it can become a flat.

First and foremost focus on targeting the fish. You have a decent chance of getting at least 2 streets of value on Axx, Jxx, KQT boards.

Questions for you:

1. What are you doing on preflop with ATs and A9s in the same situation?
2. If you turn AJo into a bluff, then where begins your value range?
3. Estimate laggy reg's iso range IP vs fish and check how you're doing vs it with AJo

cant really target a fish OOP in this situation....
1.)AJ is more valuable vs a calling range vs the fish A9s ATs isnt really that much diif except for flush value
2) Dont think a V-range matters here...most likely calling because were ahead a lot on regs calling range..should be turning crappy hands into 3 bets...dont really need a value range??unless in a diff position
3)deff beating it if hes isoing light

Calling preflop can't be that great if we even consider folding this turn.

Calling preflop can't be that great if we even consider folding this turn.

I disagree.

We call preflop, because we want to get involved in the pot with the fish, otherwise AJo is a very standard fold, since it doesn't do well against usual MP's range. Here, MP's iso range is probably wider than normally given the presence of the weaker player. Our primary goal is to flop a pair with a higher kicker than fish's hand.

Our plan has failed and we are up against a strong range. Calling OTT is possible if we would know more about the opponent.

If we have to fold in this spot, then we are probably folding to often pre-showdown to make calling preflop profitable.

The only ace you are really beating here is AT unless he is Iso raising A7o or lower, AND betting 2 streets of value with it when you called oop. That being said he might just barrel here with some sort of equity.

You must have some idea of his turn cbet after 180 hands?

I think x/c turn and x/f most rivers is fine.

This is a mistake.

Vast majority of money you make in poker comes from playing against fish. By 3-betting pre you force the fish fold out his garbage and isolate yourself vs better hands. This is not the way to create a decent winrate.

Preflop
Very good flat.

Flop
Standard.

Turn
Imo you are facing a range that is more or less similar to this:

Board: As 8c Qd 9s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 27.183% 18.84% 08.34% 315 139.50 { AhJs }
Hand 1: 72.817% 64.47% 08.34% 1078 139.50 { AA, QQ, 99-88, A8s+, KsQs, KsTs, QsTs, AJo+ }

Key factors:
- How often does he barrel?
- How aggro is he? Do you think he is capable of bluff c-betting into 2 players OR of firing 3 barrels?

If he is honest OTR and likely to bluff barrel the OTT - you can safely x/c expecting him to be honest on the next street.
Without further information x/f in order to avoid making a big mistake OTR.

Hi guys and thank you for all the answers

I pretty much agree with everything StackHunter has said on the subject. In this hand I opted to fold to his turn bet and I do feel confident it is the right descision vs villains range. Nice to see that there is a fair number of participants in this forum, realizing the value of our one pair hand facing this turn bet (and this turn-card) is quite low. At this point it is more of a bluffcatcher. Also assuming there are some draw+1pair hand in his Cbetting range makes the river even more difficult for us, if the river bricks are we then going to call the riverbet? There are so many 2 pair+ hands in villains range at this moment (facing a river bet) that I think we would be loosing money making a river call here.

180 hands isn't enough aganist a decent player to really say much about how he plays in this situation. I think I at the time had stats on villain on 3 turns (67% turn CB), but I know nothing about board texture, number of players etc in those hands, so I don't think that information should matter in my descision.

When I do not have more information about villain, I choose to assume he is a good thinking, and rather straightforward player (because that is what will be most beneficial for villain in the long run vs a rather unknown player). If that is true villain knows there are some really strong hands in our CC both preflop and on the flop here. I will be CC the flop bet even with strong hands and strong draws here to keep the fish in the pot. I think villain should assume I have at least top pair or a decent draw when I call his flop bet oop, and if I was villain I would not assume I could get anyone to fold a top pair at 50NL.

With that said, I do not like to fold top pair with a decent kicker on the turn, and I will not do it often vs a laggy player, but I really think I have to be sure villain is spewing chips around to make it profitable to continue with the hand here.

Take care!
Stealguitar

This is not a 3bet pre and should be closer to a fold pre. If this is a call and or 3bet pre based on your reads then why are you folding TP ott?