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Calling or 3betting OOP vs 3 players

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Stealguitar

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7 posts
Joined 08/2011

Hi guys and gals, Stealguitar here. I've been playing poker for a couple of years now, and having my main income from it for the last two years. I used to play a lot of NL6max around 2 years ago, but have since played SNGs and HUNL mostly. Though I have decided to try to get my way back into 6max, and thought it's about time to start posting some handhistory-questions.

CO is a fish (64/14 over 60 hands), btn probably a weakish small stack (25/13 over 40 hands) and SB probably a decent regular (19/18 over 74 hands). So what do we do, just call or raise, and if we raise how big do we make the raise?

Optimally of course we would like to 3bet and get HU with CO, but if we 3bet and CO calls btn, might come along, and SB most likely will, right?

Party Poker $50.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1783758
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

CO: $32.43
BTN: $14.25
SB: $50.11
Hero (BB): $50.00
UTG: $56.67
MP: $50.00

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BB with 8 Diamond 8 Spade
2 folds, CO raises to $1, BTN calls $1, SB calls $0.75, Hero calls $0.50

Btw I hope I wrote the hand as I'm supposed to in this forum, I haven't been posting a lot here (if anything), so please tell me if I shall change any of the information in future posts.

Take care!
Stealguitar

Posted 12 months ago

Squarebarrell_Gunmonkey

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8 posts
Joined 05/2012

Calling > 3-betting

You don't want to isolate the cut-off with 88's, because he will fold more often then not to you when you do make a hand, and you will actually bleed money calling with medium to low pocket pairs out of the blinds against CO and BTN, one of the tiny leaks a lot of players have.

Pocket pairs and Axs type hands play great multi-way, don't 3-bet this, call because you will get paid off more when you do hit your set, and it's not too easy to get in trouble with these hands post-flop out of position. Pocket 88's are easy to play OOP in multi-way pot, because your set mining, your 88's will lose considerable equity as the streets progress.

The implied odds here are tremendous because the CO is >50 BB, the BTN is likely all in if he hits so that's an easy 15 bucks there and the SB is full stacked as well, so I would gladly only pay .50 cents here to see a flop with 4 deep, i'd be smashing my call button

Posted 12 months ago

Frank959

Avatar for Frank959

214 posts
Joined 02/2012

Do not under any circumstances 3 bet...in these situations you will have juicy implied odds and have a really good chance of stacking at least one person if you hit a set....unfortunately none of these players have 100BB stacks, however calling here against two bad players is the right decision....just remember you are first to act so if two over cards come on the flop, no set no bet....just check and see what the C/O and BTN do.....If C/O bets and BTN calls it's time to fold.....

Posted 12 months ago

Stealguitar

Avatar for Stealguitar

7 posts
Joined 08/2011

Thanks guys, I agree and I did call here (and folded on a AKx-flop), vs only the fish I would have raised it up to 4BB though Wink

Posted 12 months ago

StackHunter

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2646 posts
Joined 09/2010

It's all about EV.

You know flatting here is +EV, you are directly priced in to set mine.

Sqz to $6 requires 61.1% fold equity to be break even. How do you think, how often will the fish come along? Imo more often than 40%.
Second question, how you're doing vs his potential flatting range:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 52.125% 51.65% 00.47% 1140921444 10454514.00 { 88 }
Hand 1: 47.875% 47.40% 00.47% 1047041688 10454514.00 { QQ-66, A7s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, 98s, 87s, A9o+, KTo+, QJo }

Looks pretty good, but what about playability? Besides 722, 652, 8xx boards you may find yourself in some serious trouble and make a big mistake postflop.
Furthermore, if fish will call, then the other players will be even more likely to flat. You will end up in a massively bloated pot with 88.

I'd much rather sqz here with { JJ+,AJs+,KQs,AQo+,KQo }

Posted 12 months ago

Stealguitar

Avatar for Stealguitar

7 posts
Joined 08/2011

It's all about EV.

You know flatting here is +EV, you are directly priced in to set mine.

Sqz to $6 requires 61.1% fold equity to be break even. How do you think, how often will the fish come along? Imo more often than 40%.
Second question, how you're doing vs his potential flatting range:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 52.125% 51.65% 00.47% 1140921444 10454514.00 { 88 }
Hand 1: 47.875% 47.40% 00.47% 1047041688 10454514.00 { QQ-66, A7s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, 98s, 87s, A9o+, KTo+, QJo }

Looks pretty good, but what about playability? Besides 722, 652, 8xx boards you may find yourself in some serious trouble and make a big mistake postflop.
Furthermore, if fish will call, then the other players will be even more likely to flat. You will end up in a massively bloated pot with 88.

I'd much rather sqz here with { JJ+,AJs+,KQs,AQo+,KQo }



In this spot I agree 3betting is probably not a great idea, but mainly because we will be facing more than one player to often. Vs a huge fish I don't mind making the pot bigger with 88 oop, I have a pretty good idea about how he is playing, he will call flop and the turn with almost atc, and raise when he have top pair or better, so against this fish 88 isn't so hard to play. So we're kind of in a hurry to get money from the fish, soon there is no money to take... but nevertheless I still agree, 3betting here even though we are in a rush to play big pot with the fish, will probably cost us more than we will be earning on average the few times we manage to get it HU with the fish.

Take care!
Stealguiatar

Posted 12 months ago

NixonTheGrouch

Avatar for NixonTheGrouch

Section 9
1155 posts
Joined 11/2008

Vs a huge fish I don't mind making the pot bigger with 88 oop, I have a pretty good idea about how he is playing, he will call flop and the turn with almost atc, and raise when he have top pair or better, so against this fish 88 isn't so hard to play.


Unless you have a specific read against this player, I think it is wrong to assume a loose passive fish is going to raise you with top pair. Playing 88 out of position against a calling station isn't going to be the greatest situation. That's not to say it's -EV, but as StackHunter said, there's a definite playability concern.

Posted 12 months ago

Stealguitar

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7 posts
Joined 08/2011

Unless you have a specific read against this player, I think it is wrong to assume a loose passive fish is going to raise you with top pair. Playing 88 out of position against a calling station isn't going to be the greatest situation. That's not to say it's -EV, but as StackHunter said, there's a definite playability concern.



I agree in vacuum, but I have a specific read on this guppy Smile

Take care
Stealguitar

Posted 12 months ago




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