Micro Stakes Online NL Poker Forums

BTN: $50.00 - VPIP: 23, PFR: 22, 3B: 14, AF: 1.9, Hands: 282
Hero (SB): $50.75 - VPIP: 25, PFR: 20, 3B: 9, AF: 3.4, Hands: 276068
BB: $67.67 - VPIP: 18, PFR: 15, 3B: 5, AF: 3.7, Hands: 146
UTG: $50.00 - VPIP: 15, PFR: 12, 3B: 5, AF: 4.1, Hands: 668
CO: $68.93 - VPIP: 29, PFR: 29, 3B: 33, AF: 0.5, Hands: 14

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is SB with A Q
2 folds, BTN raises to $1.25, Hero calls $1, 1 fold

Flop: ($3.00) Q 8 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $1.71, [color=red]Hero check/calls or check raises ??

NO dynamics were made before that hand. villain 24/22 steal from bu is 77% 300 hands
cbet 53%

reads: 3bets depolarized
check raise t9s FD on Axxfd board
pot control A6 a99 c/c flop

I didn't 3bet pre because i haven't create dynamics and aggro image also he folded 8 from 8 3bets..

1) what do u think the best flop play is vs that villain?

a) donking i think definetely is a good play, he has lots of top pairs, weak pairs and draws which he will call me with..

b) check/calling hmm not sure , he cbets not much.. high chance that he will check back this flop with some weak pair, ace high and something like that... may be it is not the best option there...

c) check/raising , could be ok option , but most likely villain will check back a lot of hands there... also when i get 3bet i am not sure is he is 3betting his draws... if he 3bets i kinda don't know what to do .. i'll have to ship it ...but if he 3bets flop let's say overpair+ and flush draws i am already an underdog.. so when i c/r i am targetting mostly his calling range .. unfortunately hard to say how he plays FDs


villain will miss that flop and have Ace high or air 60% of the time..
flushdraws(~55combos) , OESD(48 combos) and gutshots(~84 combos) are 23% of his range...

I'd normally 3bet, but if he has a fold to 3bet 100% over 300 hands, flatting is best i think, especially if the BB is not an aggro squeezer.
His cbetting range on that flop will most likely be overpairs,toppairs (may chk back some bad of these though), flushdraws/gutshots/oesd and a TON of trash (his opening range otb is huge).

Donking, yeah, it might be a viable option, but 1) we don't know how he reacts to donkbets by regs, 2) we lose a cbet by his air (cant be opening that much otb and checking back a ton of flops, so i think that his overal cbet% stat is not the same as in this situation).

I'd probably c/r as i would do with many hands in this spot. I'd only check/call if i knew more about his barreling tendencies. I wouldn't really be affraid of a 3bet.

Interesting hand and questions

Im not sure if its possible for anyone to say what line is the highest EV , so to me all seem reasonable.

I would focus in on what i do know about him , that is his btn stealing tendencies. He steals a lot it seems. So i know i will be doing a lot of 3betting , calling , donk betting , c/c and c/r vs him. As to what i want to do most of i cant possibly know at this point. For that reason all plays have merit.

Youve seen him pot control before oop and its not a board we can expect him to cbet much of his air on , i wouldnt mind a donk here in that case and find out how he reacts to that.

The only way we can make reads is to play hands , so i think maybe the best way is to play the hand however you feel comfortable then wel have a better idea the next time this comes around.

Interesting hand and questions

Im not sure if its possible for anyone to say what line is the highest EV , so to me all seem reasonable.

I would focus in on what i do know about him , that is his btn stealing tendencies. He steals a lot it seems. So i know i will be doing a lot of 3betting , calling , donk betting , c/c and c/r vs him. As to what i want to do most of i cant possibly know at this point. For that reason all plays have merit.

Youve seen him pot control before oop and its not a board we can expect him to cbet much of his air on , i wouldnt mind a donk here in that case and find out how he reacts to that.

The only way we can make reads is to play hands , so i think maybe the best way is to play the hand however you feel comfortable then wel have a better idea the next time this comes around.

True. We basically flopped the nuts vs his range, not knowing what line is most +EV. Might as well play it at a fashion thats gonna provide you with reads for the future where you don't flop that well. Or thats a terrible thinking?

p.s. I'd still c/r

yeah agree all lines seems + ev because he has enough combos for us to profit in all scenarios, either we donk, c/r or c/c.

I picked C/R option , but felt kind of very bad waiting how he will respond to my flop C/R. I definetely was sure that i would fire turn and river if he calls , but i would feel sick if he would 3 BET FLOP me, i wouldn't know what to then... because vs his 3betting range i am underdog even if he is 3betting all his FD's.. so i would feel then a bit sick... C/R definetely is not a bad option , but may be i just needed to create some insane dynamics vs him to feel comfortable about C/R shove line...

If villain folds too much to 3-bets pre, I don't think the correct adjustment is to 3-bet less.

Also, I don't think you should be sad about picking up the dead money in the pot pre vs playing a pot OOP with AQ. I think the spot you find yourself in shows why.

If villain folds too much to 3-bets pre, I don't think the correct adjustment is to 3-bet less.

True. But you certainly don't want to do it with a hand as strong as AQs though. Better to do it with hands like A7o or 53s.

Also, I don't think you should be sad about picking up the dead money in the pot pre vs playing a pot OOP with AQ. I think the spot you find yourself in shows why.

AQ plays well enough against a wide button range.

Flatting pre is higher EV with this hand, esp. when it's suited, because a lot of people cbetting too much with mega wide range and we printin' money more than 3b him and he just folds.

On the flop we don't expect villain to bet his whole range as a bluff, right ?
So we can expect him to call with a bunch of worse hands which can continue with reasonable equity.
Like Q2s+, flushdraws, maybe some 2nd pairs and overpairs. We can expect him to 3bet nutflushdraws or combo draws on the flop, also we can add combos of overpairs, whom decided not to call, and when we get 3bet on the flop, we have easy shove for value



MP2 52.59% KK, AhKh, AhJh, AhTh, JhTh, Ah9h, Th9h, Ah7h, Ah6h, 7h6h, Ah5h, 6h5h, Ah4h, Ah3h, Ah2h
MP3 47.41% AsQs


Also we expected to get called by worse more often than face a 3bet, so i think our considerations about c/cing end up here.

I'd shut down on hearts on the turn only.

If villain folds too much to 3-bets pre, I don't think the correct adjustment is to 3-bet less.

Yes, it isn't. But there is no sense to 3bet him with hands like AQ, It has a lot of value playing it vs wide button range instead of collecting the dead money, which you can do with a lot of crab vs this kinda guy.

Sample is a little too low, but if you assume he checks back a lot of mediocre SD value I think donking is a little better than check/raising. As a default in BvB spot I'd probably go for a check/raise. Check/calling seems like missing value to me.

I'm probably never folding the flop if my donk gets raised or if he ships vs a check/raise - you rep very narrow value range, esp BvB (he'll probably expect you to 3bet JJ+, AQ pre and rarely check/raise TP for value).

Sample is a little too low, but if you assume he checks back a lot of mediocre SD value I think donking is a little better than check/raising.

Problem is, he has 70% range opening the button, so he probably has more air thats gonna cbet most of the time, than some weak sd value that's gonna check behind. And that weak sd value range, is gonna call 1 or even 2 bets once it checks behind the flop so it's not like we're losing any value against that and we don't have a read that he autoraises donkbets (in that case, a donk would have been better i think)

Dont you have to 3bet here pre due to you being oop? Then you could donk or x raise? I just think you would be asking for trouble flatting this from the sb. In fact I dont think I have ever seen an instructors video where they flat in this spot. His mistake would be opening too wide otb in the first place and calling your 3 bet? I think. I could be perfectly wrong tho. This to me is an attack from the blinds hand not a defense. Plus flatting here is inviting the bb to come along with all his implied odds type of hands.

Dont you have to 3bet here pre due to you being oop? Then you could donk or x raise? I just think you would be asking for trouble flatting this from the sb. In fact I dont think I have ever seen an instructors video where they flat in this spot. His mistake would be opening too wide otb in the first place and calling your 3 bet? I think. I could be perfectly wrong tho. This to me is an attack from the blinds hand not a defense. Plus flatting here is inviting the bb to come along with all his implied odds type of hands.

I think it boils down to your post flop skills. If you are confident and skilled in your postflop game then playing this hand versus dominated range will be good. If you are not good postflop then take immediate profit and 3bet and it`s won`t as big of deal if villain would 4bet you and you would have to fold as opposed to if you are skilled postflop and won`t be able to play this hand postflop.

Dont you have to 3bet here pre due to you being oop?

You don't have to do anything.

Then you could donk or x raise?

Sure.

I just think you would be asking for trouble flatting this from the sb. In fact I dont think I have ever seen an instructors video where they flat in this spot.

If you aren't flatting this hand, are you flatting anything here?

His mistake would be opening too wide otb in the first place and calling your 3 bet? I think. I could be perfectly wrong tho.

Well yes, if villain is opening wide otb, and calling a lot of 3 bets, then this would be a clear 3 bet for value.

This to me is an attack from the blinds hand not a defense. Plus flatting here is inviting the bb to come along with all his implied odds type of hands.

How often will the bb actually overcall? Does the bb have as much implied odds against AQs as you think?

The other reason not to 3bet this villain is that you shut out his worse hands and build a pot oop w/ a hand that is probably dominated by his continuing range. If he has folded to 8 out of 8 3 bets, when he does eventually call a 3 bet, what do you think his range is likely to look like? And you have to fold if he 4 bets. It's an opponent specific thing, you adjust your range to your opponents' ranges, and vs this guy you probably should call. You are crushing his 77% btn steal range, but vs his likely tight continuing range vs a 3b, not so much. Also, his c bet stat is kind of low, which makes me want to donk the flop.

MP2 52.59% KK, AhKh, AhJh, AhTh, JhTh, Ah9h, Th9h, Ah7h, Ah6h, 7h6h, Ah5h, 6h5h, Ah4h, Ah3h, Ah2h
MP3 47.41% AsQs

Why haven't you included sets? I think I'd probably lean towards a fold if I got 3bet on this flop.

Same range only sets added:

Board: Qh 8h 6s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 36.468% 36.47% 00.00% 9748 0.00 { AsQs }
Hand 1: 63.532% 63.53% 00.00% 16982 0.00 { KK-QQ, 88, 66, AhKh, AhJh, AhTh, Ah9h, Ah7h, Ah6h, Ah5h, Ah4h, Ah3h, Ah2h, JhTh, Th9h, 7h6h, 6h5h }

I forgot to add Q8s and 86s but they probably won't change much, you could also add hands like 7h5h,5h4h and 6hxh