Micro Stakes Online NL Poker Forums

Easy call preflop.

No it's not an easy call preflop if you are considering herofolding when you do actually hit a set.

No it's not an easy call preflop if you are considering herofolding when you do actually hit a set.

But shouldn't board texture and villain's line come into consideration? I mean if the flop comes K52tt or even rainbow, that makes this a lot different than this right?

But shouldn't board texture and villain's line come into consideration? I mean if the flop comes K52tt or even rainbow, that makes this a lot different than this right?

Well yeah board texture is important but this is like one of the best boards for us.

Well yeah board texture is important but this is like one of the best boards for us.

I think the call is standard. And as folding the set was never really in my consideration, the reason I posted was:

I was wondering if there was a different way to play postflop.

and

Should you always be looking to get it all in with a set on certain boards, irrespective of the betting action? In other words, if I think I'm beat because of the action (even with a set), should I still get it in because folding sets is inherently -EV in the long run?

You can fold sets if there's a situation where your opponents hand range crushes you. You really need to work on some poker theory though, if his range is indeed 33 and 77 only then this is a stackoff.

Well I agree that I need to work on poker theory

My read in the situation was that he would only bet that way with made hands. If it's only sets then my equity is 50% against his range. But if we include 64 then my equity goes down to 38%. If we include overpairs or NFD then obviously I have a lot more equity.

But shouldn't board texture and villain's line come into consideration? I mean if the flop comes K52tt or even rainbow, that makes this a lot different than this right?

For you to have the required implied odds to setmine you have to stack off pretty much every time you hit a set.

Also, folding can't be -EV, DUCY?

Edit: At 25nl, for all we know villain could have KK here.

Also, folding can't be -EV, DUCY?

it can over multiple streets.

I don't think this is a fold unless the guy is really wide when opens and super nitty postflop, and even then it's not a fold.

I've had to fold sets before, but this isn't that place. When cutoff raises, I think you can either ship it, or check call the turn like I hope you did. One other thing, what's with his call and then re-raise? very weird line - it's for value, but of his value hands, you're only behind 77 exactly, with QQ added in on the turn.

The only time i will definately fold a set is if i think villian has a flush. Sole reading someone has a better set is monsters under the bed syndrome imo.

I just filtered all the times I flopped a set back when I was playing on Stars before Black Friday. I only looked at hands that went to showdown that I lost a BI or close to a BI.

I played a total of 255,862 hands on Stars.

936 times I flopped a set.

I won $5,860.40 and lost $1,571.03

Not sure what any of it really means.

as far as preflop, i think people overestimate the ev of calling.

i'd be curious for people to filter HEM for their expectation calling out of the blinds in this spot with various stack depths. given our limited ability to manage the pot size OOP, i think it is quite easy to overestimate our EV here. in addition, we will get oversetted with hands like this and we will get stacked for a lot of money.

consider what happens when you call - you need to get back postflop what you put in calling preflop. it's very easy to have a distorted idea of the profitability. many times you fold the flop and lose a small amount, sometimes you c/r and win the pot and rarely you stack someone. there are of course other scenarios, but this will describe quite a bit of your postflop play w/55 here.

in addition, should you choose an adventurous bluff, it will be a very low equity one, which is usually a poor idea against decent or better opponents.

as far as preflop, i think people overestimate the ev of calling.

i'd be curious for people to filter HEM for their expectation calling out of the blinds in this spot with various stack depths.

That's actually a good idea. I'm not great with filters, but I'm sure someone here could come up with a way where we could compare (1) all the times we called with pocket pairs in SB/BB and folded postflop, with (2) all the times we called with pocket pairs in SB/BB and hit a set.
Would that give us an idea of the rough EV of calling in spots like that?

no, because it's not exhaustive. just filter for your net +/- for call OOP 22-66 or whatever (we'll call them the set mining pairs). group them all together since they are all effectively the same, so our sample is instantly 5x larger. try again for things like "call OOP after limper iso'd" or whatever

filtered 22-66, SB and BB only, did coldcall raise preflop=true
3189 trials winning 54bb/100 at 100 deep, 8bb/100 at 200 deep for 435 trials

total in this DB is 1.2M hands

I don't fold pairs.

random observation: I am losing money at 200NL, and winning at 400-1k. Not sure how to explain it as the hand samples across the limits are all decent in size other than that maybe the higher stakes fight harder for pots postflop so I make more on sets.