Micro Stakes Online NL Poker Forums

This looks like a thinly veiled whine, but after 18 months of playing/studying... i still suck.

i had a coach at one point and he said my game looked pretty solid, yet i cant get out of 10nl. Here is my recent graph and stats. I would appreciate it if anyone notices any leaks to point them out.

Im guessing that my edge just isnt big enough to beat it. My profits at these stakes should come from winning at showdown, but when you run into the top of their range/coolered it kind of cancels it out, and once the rake is factored in it becomes pointless.

I have looked at areas that i can give myself and edge, like not going all in pre with AK/QQ without a read that he stacks off pre with enough hands to make it EV...not c betting bad flops OOP, value betting the turn thin against stations, not bluffing unless i have position, the right opponent FE and pot equity, polarising 3 bets against a weak range in position, depolarising when they can call with worse, folding pair type hands to aggression....ect

It seems i dont pick up enough small pots. My redline is sloping straight down, but i cant see how i can improve it when people dont fold at these limits. Value bet more would appear to be the answer but this cant be done if i dont have a hand. Maybe i fold too much myself when i have a marginal holding? I dont know, im out of ideas.

Now looking at this graph, do you think is a normal swing? Is it possible to get out of this? I was doing ok before the swing beating the rake (according to PTR) but there isnt much chance of this now, and if the rake is beating you there isnt much point?

I can honestly say i didnt tilt off any buy ins, i just kept hitting the top of their range or got sucked out on. It seems i hit one of these ski-slope death drops after about 20-30k hands where my profits get fucked up back to breakeven.

So i guess my question is... how can i pick up my redline to make up for the coolers?

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=swr98i&s=6

Stats:

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2gsl9vs&s=6

Sample size is far too small. I think people will agree, that 20k doesn't really tell us anything.

20k is nothing and at least you are winning. it wouldn't mean nothing even if u had 50k breakeven hands.
ppl play this amount of hands in less than a month and top pros have losing months

D you're still being results oriented even after all this time! If J said that your game is solid you ought to trust his opinion and strive to continue improving not looking at $ over 20k hands. Your graph suggests you've got your ABC shoes on and I know you're not a spewtard. Reason why you doomswitch is because your confidence gets knocked and subsequently play worse. In essence you start missing out on value that you'd normally get because you feel you can't win. Then when your aces get cracked again, your game don't absorb it as easy any more as it would normally. Then you nit up even more and it goes downhill like that. Always think about the right play. If the money is bothering you, i.e. you feel really unhappy loosing 12BI like this then maybe you should think about moving down to where you don't care about it as much thus you can focus on making the most +EV play.

GL

dont tell us much.

But it looks like you may be folding to much postflop. your wtsd seems a bit low.
And fold to cb on flop and turn seems high.

what site you playing on? Agree with poster above from first glance at stats...

Maybe take a break to get some perspective. You sound pretty discouraged. GL

D you're still being results oriented even after all this time! If J said that your game is solid you ought to trust his opinion and strive to continue improving not looking at $ over 20k hands. Your graph suggests you've got your ABC shoes on and I know you're not a spewtard. Reason why you doomswitch is because your confidence gets knocked and subsequently play worse. In essence you start missing out on value that you'd normally get because you feel you can't win. Then when your aces get cracked again, your game don't absorb it as easy any more as it would normally. Then you nit up even more and it goes downhill like that. Always think about the right play. If the money is bothering you, i.e. you feel really unhappy loosing 12BI like this then maybe you should think about moving down to where you don't care about it as much thus you can focus on making the most +EV play.

GL

Hey up mate. Since we last spoke, i had a shot at at 25nl, where i ran like death and had to start again at 5nl. Did fine down there and now back at 10nl. I play under a different user name.

The problem is, i fold to aggression too much since if i ever do look them up, they always have it. I think i need to improve my redline but have no idea how, value betting and folding to aggression is our edge at these stakes yes?

I did push some thin edges that didnt pay off, such as getting it in pre with a maniac with 88 when i knew he was showing up with worse, playing OESD fast on the flop and turn.

have you only played 20-30k hands in 18 months?

Hey up mate. Since we last spoke, i had a shot at at 25nl, where i ran like death and had to start again at 5nl. Did fine down there and now back at 10nl. I play under a different user name.

The problem is, i fold to aggression too much since if i ever do look them up, they always have it. I think i need to improve my redline but have no idea how, value betting and folding to aggression is our edge at these stakes yes?

I did push some thin edges that didnt pay off, such as getting it in pre with a maniac with 88 when i knew he was showing up with worse, playing OESD fast on the flop and turn.

Tighten up pre flop, give up more often on the flop with your air, learn to value bet thinly

I think I understand your problem and I've been there myself. I don't think you should be looking at your stats because they tend to vary a lot per table per game. For example, you could be playing 45/40 and it would be perfectly alright because of all the nits at the table and your isolating the fish. You could be playing 12/10 and it would be alright against hyper agrro calling stations. You could be checking every single flop that you miss because villain calls you down all the way. etc. There can be perfectly fine reasons for doing what your doing. The stats don't reflect this.

Okay my basic strategy for 10NL and also 25NL. Stop playing ABC (this only tends to work if either your table is half fish half regulars or if you're running hot like the sun). We need to play solid TAG which means always identyfing where there is dead money, maximizing value bets and thin value betting.

Against tourists we want to blow pots with TPTK+ and get the money in. With medium hands we'd like to get 2 streets of value at least and potentially thin value on the river. For the rest we don't want to bluff to often unless they are scare cards that the villain is capable of folding on.

Against standard/aggressive regulars we want to play position and we want to think ahead of them. This is where you will create a side income to reduce your redline. If you think about it, your ABC game gets exploited against these types of players because they are capable of recognising weakness and make you fold (thus you don't get to showdown). So you need to start thiniking about how to counter what they are doing. For example, you open villain TAG calls flop comes Axx dry. You cbet 100% villain check raises you fold. Think about the check-raise. Most regulars do not re-raise an A in that spot they will just call. So this is a typical spot where they recognise that you cbet 100% and they adjust by check-raising you. In this spot I like to re-raise immediately with everything but the nuts because I don't want them to get into the habit of getting aggressive on me and it creates a good image for me. Makes it easier to get paid off in future as they feel they get played back at more than usual. So it's key to understand how they play their game, and then find spots to make them make mistakes. For example, if your up against me and you know that I know that your not re-raising an A on the Axx dry board, you should do exactly that and let me get money into the pot badly. There are numerous situations like that where you can make a decent side income and stop your redline spiralling down.

The lags and drunks. The ones that are always betting and raising are not so difficult to play against. Terminate hands early if they can't stand a lot of heat and go to the felt with hands that can. But play it tight and more passively than normal because that is what these guys thrive on. If you get aggressive back they are going to fold their junk and there is no money to be gained. But you could always try betting very small to induce craziness

Above all bet sizing. If villain will call 2bbs more than your bet than you should be betting 2bbs more. If your bet of 40% pot accomplishes the same as 80% pot you should be betting 40% pot. Etc. If villain is a tourist consider if over-betting and shoving will work?

Combine all of the above with your knowledge of position, board textures, ranges, etc. and you should be alright Oh yeah look to squeeze and 3bet more often with blockers than you're currently doing. If you're up against a high% 3bettor start lowering your opens to 2x and play tighter and start calling and utilise your position.

Last but not least, to make you feel better. My stabs at 50NL have not been successful either and I'm down about $400 for that stake. The highlight was a $140 pot where I had floped full house and was up against bottom set on the turn, and he one outers me on the river for quadzillas. It was an emotional moment because I had to move back down yet again! But that's how winning is done

Hope this helps.

Stop trying to address your red line at uNL, problem solved.

Edit: And put in real volume, that many hands in 18 months is a joke.

Stop trying to address your red line at uNL, problem solved.

Care to explain this statement? It just so happens that fixing the redline made me a winner.

Care to explain this statement? It just so happens that fixing the redline made me a winner.

Because at uNL your winrate doesnt come from making people fold it comes from getting the most value possible from hands that are +EV vs villians range.

your goal should be to improve your green line, not your red line. if you go all in every hand you will have a positive red line but i don't think you want that, do you?i think a lot of people see grindcore as a hero and watched his series and want to be like him and over value red line. he said a lot of times that in the micros you should have a droping red line. well anyways what i am trying to say is don't be obssesed with this graphs and lines and don't play in a certain way just because you think it will lift your red line. just make sure that all of your decisions are correct based on the available information you have, make decisions that you think are the most +EV and the results will come, dont worry.