Micro Stakes Online NL Poker Forums

CO: $62.92 - VPIP: 22, PFR: 16, 3B: 5, AF: 2.5, Hands: 156
BTN: $54.47 - VPIP: 23, PFR: 20, 3B: 4, AF: 3.3, Hands: 384
SB: $12.94 - VPIP: 21, PFR: 8, 3B: 3, AF: 0.3, Hands: 66
BB: $78.49 - VPIP: 29, PFR: 22, 3B: 12, AF: 5.0, Hands: 138
UTG: $17.84 - VPIP: 19, PFR: 19, 3B: 5, AF: 4.0, Hands: 52
Hero (MP): $111.18 - VPIP: 20, PFR: 16, 3B: 5, AF: 2.8, Hands: 25283

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is MP with K K
1 fold, Hero raises to $1.50, 3 folds, BB raises to $4, Hero raises to $10, BB calls $6

Flop: ($20.25) 4 6 4 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $10.00, BB raises to $39.50, HERO???

Hey guys. Not used to play deep. Couple questions:

What about my 4b size?
Can we ever fold on the flop?

Thanks!

Anyone?

This deep your 4b is too small. I would make it around $12.
As played it really looks like he has 66 or AA, but I just can't see myself ever folding here against this kind of player in 4b pot. If he has AA you would get it in preflop anyway and if he hit a set on 644 in 4b pot then gl. But if he somehow does it with QQ than Just ship it and take a note (including his very bad sizing on the flop - he put you in shove/fold situation).

4bet size is fine - i'd also 4b a few more hands and see what's he doing

his line is pretty terrible with anything, but people suck and you have kings. i'd also have bet a little smaller here just to give him some more opportunity to c/r or float with hands like QTs or whatever he may play this way.

Ok but if we bet smaller it will be hard to get stacks in with "normal" bets. Or am I wrong?

With your 4b betsize you can still easily get stacks in betting 3x 1/2 pot. But I would still 4b larger. 24bb is standard 4b size against normal-sized 3b (~10bb). He 3b much smaller, but you are deeper, so I think it evens out.

What do you guys think about villains pre flop play, specifically the size of the 3 bet, and calling the 4 bet? What should his range be for calling the 4 bet? I would expect this player to be doing this too wide, but I mean aside from what we expect his range to actually be, what should it be if he is playing correctly?

What do you guys think about villains pre flop play, specifically the size of the 3 bet, and calling the 4 bet? What should his range be for calling the 4 bet? I would expect this player to be doing this too wide, but I mean aside from what we expect his range to actually be, what should it be if he is playing correctly?

His 3b OOP 160bb deep is very bad in my opinion. He won't get any folds and he will play inflated pot OOP deep with no clue about heroes range.

Generaly it is very hard to create a range for calling 4b, so it is usually better to 5b or fold. In this particular spot (160bb deep and small 4b) villain is getting the same odds (~14-1) as if he called 3b in standard situation, so I think you could have similar range. The big difference is 4b is much less likely to be a bluff, so I would try to flop a big hand quickly and get stacks in (so pocket pairs seems to be the best choice).

"So I would try to flop a big hand quickly and get stacks in"

Isn't this what we want with each hand when we play poker?

This will happen very rarely so we have to think about making money without flopping sets.

His 3b size is bad, I agree, Why should I 4b bigger? I think he can call with weaker hands when we make it a size like this and we can get stacks in on the river anyway. So what are the pro's for 4betting bigger?

In general I think we are often against QQ (that wants to get it in with no A or K on the flop), AK or AA.
When we get c/r on the flop it's AA almost always.

"So I would try to flop a big hand quickly and get stacks in"

Being OOP vs. very strong range in 4b pot there is almost no room for trying to outplay a guy. That's why I would choose PP instead of SC, SA or broadways.

He is definitely repping AA, but the real question is - could you fold this pre if he 5b? If no, then you can't fold on this flop. Period.

Ok but if we bet smaller it will be hard to get stacks in with "normal" bets. Or am I wrong?

7/15/shove looks fine to me

this is a pretty awesome board for your hand!

the only hand i would be worried about a bit is A4s. i think his raise size on the flop is really bad. i doubt he would bluff this size. so he does not really give us the chance to play back if we were bluffing pre or have just missed with AK. so he would be overplaying if he had anything less than trips imo. but i have seen this big raises for protection. so i think he will most likely have something like TT-QQ. (most likely QQ)
also most players would not just call here pre with AA so i think thats pretty unlikely for him to have.

I think AA is a 1000x's more likely than A4s.

I think AA is a 1000x's more likely than A4s.

yeah maybe it depends a lot on dynamic. but just by what i have experienced so far i very rarely see players slowplay AA 100bb deep and deeper they are even more likely to put in a 5bet to cooler KK and maybe QQ/AK or just to build a bigger pot. but that is just based on experience and my sample is not pretty big
i thought A4s is the only trips or better hand that made kind of sense for Villain to have after the pre flop action.

I agree I would not expect to see AA here, rather a hand with a 4 in it. I think 66 calls the flop and lets you barrell. Because it is deep your opponent will be flatting the 4 bet with his weaker hands so it makes sense to 4 bet larger pre flop. ie. you hopefully avoid him flatting you with A4 and stacking you.

For 100BB's I would stack off here, and I am neve folding once a 4 bet is called. Whilst you get stacked when your opponent has a 4 they will raise and call with a lot worse also.

I find this type of hand is most often the one I am getting stacked by. Have big pair, fish calls 3 or 4 bet and crushes flop. Can anyone get away from Kings this deep????