Micro Stakes Online NL Poker Forums

Hi, I'm currently trying to learn the basics of unexploitable play to use as a default defensive position when I have no reads to cause me to deviate into exploitative play.

Lets say I've raised PF and the hand has reached the river. I have T high and I think my opponent probably has a bluff catching hand like 2nd pair or tpmk. I know that if I bet 0.5 of the pot and I ensure that I'm value betting here 75% and bluffing 25% it doesn't matter if he calls me or folds with his bluffcatchers as his ev is the same. I know the correct way to work this out is to look at the total range I would arrive on the river with and count how many value combo's I have and then chose 0.33 bluff combos per value combo. However there's no way I can do this while I'm actually playing! So how can I ensure my value/bluff ratio is roughly optimal?

I think you should be vbetting 77% of the time and bluffing 33% of the time. I'm not sure where 75 and 25 came from. You answered your own question though. You just have to do work outside of the game to see what your pf range and work it down to the river. That being said no one else is playing optimally so I would only use this as a it's nice to know thing.

Oops yeah you are right with your percentages. I know other people may not be playing optimally and I will make more money by adjusting from optimal play to exploit them, I just want to know what I'm adjusting from and have a default optimal strategy to fall back to when unsure. So I'm also using an optimal pre-flop 3, 4 and 5 betting strategy and trying to play postflop so that I can't be exploited by 3 barrel bluffs or any two card floats. Lots to think about! :-)

You were right first time. If you're betting 50% of the pot on the river, say 50 into 100, then Villain is getting 3-1 odds, so your valuebet/bluff frequency should also be 3-1, 75%/25%.

You are getting 2-1 on your bluff, so villain should be calling 66% of the time and folding 33%.

I think you should be vbetting 77% of the time and bluffing 33% of the time. .

What should you do the other -10% of the time ;-)

(I think you mean 66% and 33%)

pfff huntse, that's called triple range merging you noob

:-) While I'm at the table could I just make a note everytime I value bet a river and when I have made 3 value bets I take the next bluffing opportunity? How do you adjust things for the times you bet a different size for example full pot? I mean if I've made 1 half pot value bet and then I make a full pot value bet what's my bluff frequency altering to?

Don't worry about being balanced. Exploitative play = $$$ at micros.

Of course I'm sure you are correct SCS I just feel I won't actually be a sound player if I don't understand what the balanced strategy is that I am deviating from in order to exploit. If I don't know how to be unexploitable myself I can't defend myself if I do encounter good players. I realise that learning this will cost me $$$ in lost opportunities to exploit but once I get the hang of it I can start adjusting. That's my plan anyway, maybe I'm a nutcase :-)

:-) While I'm at the table could I just make a note everytime I value bet a river and when I have made 3 value bets I take the next bluffing opportunity? How do you adjust things for the times you bet a different size for example full pot? I mean if I've made 1 half pot value bet and then I make a full pot value bet what's my bluff frequency altering to?

Yeah I wouldn't do it that way, what if you get another value betting opportunity first for one thing! To do it really accurately you need to be aware of what your whole range is doing. Not sure how many people can do this in practice but work away from the tables would help give you an intuitive sense.

I did this wrong at first. You have to factor in all the streets of betting not just the river. I'm just learning this stuff so bear with me.

For this example it's 100nl, you raised to 3bb preflop, villain called in the bb and there's no sb. I'm doing this for if you bet three streets and have 100% or 0% equity because it's much easier.

Flop you bet 4 into into 6. Villain risks 4 to win 14. He has to win 28.6%.
Turn you bet 11 into 14. Villain risks 11 to win 25. He has to win 30.6%.
River you bet 30 into 36. Villain risks 30 to win 66. He has to win 31.25%.

On flop you need 71.4% value. Turn you need to be following through on river 69.4%. River you need 68.75% value.

71.4% value hands on the flop.
69.4% value hands on the turn.
68.75% value hands on the river

When you bet three streets you need to have 71.4% * 69.4% * 68.75% = 34% of hands of your flop range should bet for value when you barrel here.

<edit> Thanks deets think I fixed it. That part seemed fuzzy to me before, but it makes sense now.

It should actually work based on the frequency you have to bet river and turn after betting flop, then your value range on river rather than taking a % of the value bet % of each street.

You'll end up with a higher ratio of value hands on each successive street.

Sorry udownwith I'm not sure what you are working out there - could you explain? I get that I need to defend my cbets of that size 70% on the turn and again on the river to avoid being exploitable by floating any two cards but I'd have bluffs in there as well as value hands wouldn't I?

With those sizings you need to bet turn 71.4%, and river 69.5% and have 68.75% value on the river, therefore you need .6875*.689% = 47.4% value on the turn and .474*.714 = 33.8% value on the flop.

Sorry udownwith I'm not sure what you are working out there - could you explain? I get that I need to defend my cbets of that size 70% on the turn and again on the river to avoid being exploitable by floating any two cards but I'd have bluffs in there as well as value hands wouldn't I?

It depends on how often villain has to defend what each time based on sizing so he's screwed whether he calls or folds. If you bet three streets and you can theoretically have value with 34% of your flop range that bets and you bet these sizes then it doesn't matter if he calls or folds river.