Micro Stakes Online NL Poker Forums

Poker Stars $50.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players -

UTG: $135.19 - VPIP: 17, PFR: 13, 3B: 8, AF: 1.5, Hands: 139
MP: $161.00 - VPIP: 29, PFR: 25, 3B: 7, AF: 2.0, Hands: 157
CO: $63.00 - VPIP: 25, PFR: 21, 3B: 12, AF: 0.0, Hands: 97
BTN: $50.00 - VPIP: 0, PFR: 0, 3B: 0, AF: 0.0, Hands: 3
Hero (SB): $74.93 - VPIP: 23, PFR: 17, 3B: 5, AF: 2.1, Hands: 45329
BB: $46.38 - VPIP: 57, PFR: 38, 3B: 26, AF: 5.5, Hands: 63

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is SB with J J
1 fold, MP raises to $1.25, 2 folds, Hero calls $1, [color=red]BB raises to $43.50

Hero???

I have only a few hands with this villain, but he's been quite aggressive in and oop. He open raises for 10x UTG with QKo and 8x with KJo. So obv he's bad.

I chose to flat the initial raise, rather than 3b, because I wanted to play pots with the fish. If I hit a set, and he gets a piece of it, I'm getting stacks always simply by checking to him and letting him own himself.

But then, he does THAT. Undecided if it's a fold or a call? I honestly have no idea what hand he would do this with. AK? Maybe? TT+? Possibly. I just don't know. He's been stacked 4x already, in 50 hands, so he may very well be tilit shoving. What's our calling range vs. these maniacs?

As I type this, he 3bet my AQo open for 10x. I shoved, he had AJo.

I forgot to include that the intial raiser folded.

so you plead guilty of slowrolling a fish?

so you plead guilty of slowrolling a fish?

lol, for real. How is this even a question? Make your hand 77 then you have a tough decision

What's our calling range vs. these maniacs?
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Is all that I really wanted an answer for. I obv. called, I just wanted to know what's the bottom of our calling range here vs. absolute maniacs. Preferably without the above posters holier than thou attitude. These forums are for discussion, not beratement.

I think it was more a joke, but whatever.

I think I'm calling like ATs+ AJo+, and like 77+. FWIW, I completely pulled that range out of my ass.

My typical range is AQ, TT+.

Maybe it's a bit tight, then.

Given that he is capable of stacking off with AJo pre this should be a fist pump get it in now.

Ya, I got it in anyway, but given further reads on his shoving range, well, it's a no brainer for sure.

I think it was more a joke, but whatever.

I think I'm calling like ATs+ AJo+, and like 77+. FWIW, I completely pulled that range out of my ass.

That's a really good range. A lot of people will just sit around waiting for premiums to call, which is great because someone's going to win this guys money, and it's probably going to be whoever calls his AI first.

At the same time, I'm not exactly sure how low we would want to go. Say this guy just lost a big pot and shoves AI in the SB when you are in the BB. You somehow know that your hand has exactly 51% equity vs his range. Should you call?

If you win, great, but there was a good chance you could get that money later anyway.
If you lose, not the end of the world, but it's also pretty likely that his money AND your money will be donated to some nit at the table.

yeahh, was just taking a fun hand to a fun level. Life is good!

To your question, since we know he he has no idea of betsizing it's a no brainer. As far as calling range goes we shouldn't spazz though, since we don't know if he spazzes. He either has a wide understanding of the nuts, or spazzes with any hand pre. So I like the range out of someones ass.

And one on your part:

But then, he does THAT. Undecided if it's a fold or a call? I honestly have no idea what hand he would do this with. AK? Maybe? TT+? Possibly

is not

What's our calling range vs. these maniacs?
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Is all that I really wanted an answer for. I obv. called

...just to keep up the fun

You somehow know that your hand has exactly 51% equity vs his range. Should you call?

Yes. If you were to know your exact equity like that, its a snap/super fist pump call. This is a cash game. There is no reason to pass up even a 1% edge (assuming you are properly rolled).

There is no such thing as a "better spot" in cash games. The only spot we need to think about is the one currently in front of us and must play to make each one as profitable as possible.

Hmmm, I don't agree with that.

Say there is some huge fish playing you HU that is open jamming 100% of hands. If he loses, he's busto and leaves. If he wins, he's going to hit and run you.

While 22 has 50.3% against a random hand, I still think it's a fold. While this is a +EV situation, by taking this extremely marginally +EV situation, you take away your opportunity to be in an extremely +EV situation in the near future.

Ok well in that situation you added qualifiers that weren't in the original situation. If you know the guy is going to hit and run, then you equity can be 51% but your EV in dollars is going to be crap so you play different.

But you kinda made my point anyway you are just using slightly faulty logic. You aren't pushing a small equity edge to "wait for a better spot." You are not pushing that slight edge because in this specific spot it isn't the most profitable play here and now.

yeahh, was just taking a fun hand to a fun level. Life is good!

To your question, since we know he he has no idea of betsizing it's a no brainer. As far as calling range goes we shouldn't spazz though, since we don't know if he spazzes. He either has a wide understanding of the nuts, or spazzes with any hand pre. So I like the range out of someones ass.

And one on your part:

But then, he does THAT. Undecided if it's a fold or a call? I honestly have no idea what hand he would do this with. AK? Maybe? TT+? Possibly

is not

What's our calling range vs. these maniacs?
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Is all that I really wanted an answer for. I obv. called

...just to keep up the fun

If we really are trying to keep up the fun, in the above quote you neglected to include the part at the end of the sentence that does, actually, ask for our calling range?

I asked what the hell are these maniacs shoving, and what's our calling range vs. them. I called, but I'm not sure how wide we should be calling. Anyway, it doesn't matter.

JJ wasn't a snap for me; perhaps I'm just too nitty in general with geting my stack AIPF. This was the first time I'd seen him totally spaz pre by shoving. My uncertainty with calling comes from somewhat the same reasoning as stl_jones: "I can take this marginal spot here where I'm likely flipping or crushed, or wait for a better spot where he's going to spew anyway". However, there's also the counter argument where I think Balaguwhale(?) mentions that these maniacs have a timer ticking above their head. We need to increase the possibility that we're the ones that benefit from their ridiculous play by playing as many pots as we can with thim. Does that include preflop all ins? Or should we be using our edge postflop for their stack? Pre, I think the only advantage we have is our superior ranges and better decision making. But even fish get dealt hands. I hadn't seen him get it in pre as of yet, so I didn't have an actual concrete read on what he was shoving.

FWIW when I called with JJ, he showed up with QJo, reloaded and shoved with AJo. This thread wasn't prompted by me being results orientated and calling with a worse hand. I just wanted to get an idea of how wide we should be calling.