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mitch

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2039 posts
Joined 01/2008

I take your point, but wouldn't a starting hand chart be a useful tool nonetheless? Something to base your decisions on, and something you can make adjustments to depending on your opponent.



Yeah I think I was getting too caught up on the "player the player not your cards thing". Mine is approximately

UTG: 22+, A9s+, ATo+, KQ
UTG1: UTG + some more broadways, especially suited
CO: UTG1, A2s+, A7o+, any cards making 20+, decent amount of good suited connectors (favouring high ones, obv, then connectedness)
BTN: anything that looks ok

Start tighter than that, especially in early position. If you're folding AJo/66 UTG that's fine and not a a big deal.

Posted almost 3 years ago

blah234

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2602 posts
Joined 12/2009

Now this sounds like a great plan. Can I ask you for a few more details on what kind of opening ranges you would consider tight? For 6 max?



watch baby steps and from a ground up. There are some suggested starting hand ranges.

I'm going to have to disagree with Improva on what's too tight. I think people starting out should play way tighter especially at micros where we got loose players behind. There's no need to open 50% of BU with all kinds of weak suited hands when blinds are not folding enough and hero not too sure how to navigate postflop with marginal holding.

Posted almost 3 years ago

improva

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3892 posts
Joined 02/2008

Poker is mostly about playing the BTN.

Unless people are 3betting a lot and/or XR bliffing a lot.. then 50% is more than okay.
Dont fold the btn unless you really really have to.

Posted almost 3 years ago

MI5 Mark

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2100 posts
Joined 06/2011

Poker is mostly about playing the BTN.

Unless people are 3betting a lot and/or XR bliffing a lot.. then 50% is more than okay.
Dont fold the btn unless you really really have to.


A default 50% range is fine for the BU but in reality someone will open at the micros alot, either through limping or being too loose, or the blinds will call too much/fight back so in reality you might be opening about 35+%

Posted almost 3 years ago

BellaLobo

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217 posts
Joined 04/2011

But if he is trying to learn, and it seems he is.

He is going to get into to many ackward spots on BTN in micros. Where most blinds call, and he will likely start spewing money. Negating the advantage he has with the BTN.

Seems be better for him to go with Blahs advice and play very tight. Get comfortable, than start opening up. Starting with the BTN.

BTN is the money spot, but if he doesn't know the basics, it is no real advantage to him, and might wind up being costly as he could overplay/spew.

Posted almost 3 years ago

improva

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3892 posts
Joined 02/2008

I'm sorry but it is at little backwards. As long as the players in the blinds allow us to realize our equity with a high percentage (they dont 3bet that much, don't XR that much and don't donk that often) then the right strategy is to open pretty wide OTB.

ABC (btn play):
- Cbet 100 on dry flop. Bet again on most turn if villain calls your cbet with Ah
- Barrel the turn when you have good equity (OSED, GS+one overcard)
- Tripple barrel bluff when the flop flush draw hits on the river.
- Bet marginal hands for protection on the flop. 54 on AT4. 22 on 488
- Bet hands with back door equity (unless villain is likely to XR).
- XB hands like J4 on J63 (the goal is to figure out how villain plays when you XB). If he folds to you turn bet... then you should start delay cbetting him when you don't have any back equity on the flop.

Posted almost 3 years ago

sileekhunt

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725 posts
Joined 04/2010

^^ interested in the theory behind tripple barrelling the rivered FD?

Posted almost 3 years ago

PrinzVonHapunkt

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1521 posts
Joined 12/2010

my guess would be that most 2pair+ would chr flop or turn on twotone flop boards, FDs usually dont call 2 streets either and on such boards a huge part of someone (hero)'s 2barrel- bluffrange (assuming he's no maniac) is the FD so villain's most likely range is some sort of weakish top pair (because if it's a high card flop most good top pairs wouldve 3bet pre) or worse (since for example Tx that was top pair on the flop might be 2nd pair because of a "scare card" hitting) and for a Tx top pair there are more overpairs also so someone would have to have some good read on hero's triplebarreling frequency (because we usually also have some wide-ish valuerange because his range is perceived weakish) or be unable to let go of top pair (but then we wouldnt triplebarrel I guess)

Posted almost 3 years ago

improva

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3892 posts
Joined 02/2008

^^ interested in the theory behind tripple barrelling the rivered FD?



betting the flop with back door equity, barrel the turn when you have good equity => We will very often have the flush and villain will almost never have the flush. If we are also betting our strong made hands villain will be making a massive mistake vs our range if he calls with a weak top pair.

That and people fear the flush...

Posted almost 3 years ago

PrinzVonHapunkt

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1521 posts
Joined 12/2010

sileekhunt

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725 posts
Joined 04/2010

betting the flop with back door equity, barrel the turn when you have good equity => We will very often have the flush and villain will almost never have the flush. If we are also betting our strong made hands villain will be making a massive mistake vs our range if he calls with a weak top pair.

That and people fear the flush...



cool. OK thanks - food for thought.

Posted almost 3 years ago

Paully_V

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92 posts
Joined 07/2011

udownwithvpp

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1143 posts
Joined 04/2008

I think you're all trying to generalize poker way too much which is ok if you're new to online poker or not a winning player. On the other hand it's not going to cut it in today's games if you want to crush. I'm pretty sure improva's idea of an abc game is quite far ahead of everyone playing micros. I think a lot of people beating 200nl say they'd play abc at micros but their idea of abc is different than the vast majority of 25nl regs from what I've seen.

Posted almost 3 years ago

threads13

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2626 posts
Joined 03/2008

From working with a lot of guys who play the micros I've seen there's a fair amount of nits even at the micros. That being the case you can actually open the BTN super-wide in general. You'll often pick it up often enough pre-flop to open ATC. I view it as a nice +EV way of learning to play a wide range. If the blinds are nitting out vs steals then you don't really have to have a lot of postflop skill to profitably raise 73s.

Agree with what Improva is saying as well.

Feel free to nit out in EP/MP though. Smile

Posted almost 3 years ago

gregdonohue

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15 posts
Joined 10/2011

From my experience which isn't much quite a lot of people are raising light from EP-MP in 5/10nl 6max
now if you flat with say AK you get bet off more times than not and they end up having 56o or something along then lines , so bet your big hands big 3bet more better to win a small pot than loose big one .Don't be two greedy and as someone said don;t try to win evey pot you enter you can give up it's not bad poker .Greg

Posted almost 3 years ago

hurla

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223 posts
Joined 10/2011

I have to say, I'm glad I asked this question about ABC poker. Because it seems there isn't actually an easy answer. I'm a losing player looking to control my tilt and learn the fundamentals of ABC poker.
So far the tight is right answers seem to make more sense to me.

Wait a minute. Is there really such a thing as ABC poker??

Posted almost 3 years ago

micsquab

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750 posts
Joined 09/2010

How abouf good poker, bad poker, not abc poker. No magic pills, or crying in poker.

Posted almost 3 years ago

hurla

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223 posts
Joined 10/2011

How abouf good poker, bad poker, not abc poker. No magic pills, or crying in poker.


Great. What is good poker?

Posted almost 3 years ago

micsquab

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750 posts
Joined 09/2010

Making good decisions concerning poker at and away from the table = good poker.

I think the term ABC poker is sometimes used by good players or coaches who have built their bankrolls up from the bottom took some swings at the noose bleeds got whacked, and had to drop down to a level they have worked and beaten before. So while playing at this lower level or talking about it they might say something like "oh at this level I can just play ABC poker and win". The problem is ABC poker for them might be very advanced for us newbies. These good players have already put in time and effort to learn and win at the lower levels while we would still be in the learning/busting phase. Good luck. Smile

Posted almost 3 years ago

Paully_V

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92 posts
Joined 07/2011

For me ABC poker is good starting hand selection. Very tight early and looser late. Value betting your good hands (Top pair or better) without trying to be fancy (no check raise bluff with second pair etc). No bluffing three streets with AK on a low board. Learn to fold top pair to aggressive betting, fold two pair when the flush hits and the board is bombed....
Start by playing straight forward, and then when you have played a LOT of hands and are a small winning player, then start trying three-bet squeeze w Axs and other fancy plays.

Posted almost 3 years ago

nzweasel

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30 posts
Joined 02/2012

Great thread and discussion for a new player to read!

Posted almost 3 years ago

Loiner

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499 posts
Joined 05/2011

I'm trying to put together an ABC gameplan for Micro Stakes. I read everywhere that you should stick to ABC poker, and generally it's just left at that. But nobody actually goes into any detail about what ABC poker is. Preumably it means simple poker with no bluffing.

So are talking as basic as fit or fold? Raise pre and if you miss just fold to any bet?
Are we talking about never double barreling?
What kind of ranges should we open raise in 6 Max? And what should we 3bet?

How about we start with opening ranges?

I was thinking along these general tight lines:

EP: TT+, AKo, AKs
MP: 88+, AQs, AKo, AKs
CO: 22+, AJs, AJo, AQo, AQs, AKo, AKs
BTN: 22+, Axo, Axs, KQo, KQs, QJo, QJs
SB: ?
BB: ? (What range should we defend with?)

Too tight?



Looks like my 3betting range...

Posted almost 3 years ago

hurla

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223 posts
Joined 10/2011

I brought this up in the OP, but what kind of a range should we be defending our BB and SB with? Are we basically folding most hands to a LP raise? Calling with pocket pairs, AQ, AJ, AT? 3betting JJ+ and AK?

Posted almost 3 years ago

MI5 Mark

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2100 posts
Joined 06/2011

I brought this up in the OP, but what kind of a range should we be defending our BB and SB with? Are we basically folding most hands to a LP raise? Calling with pocket pairs, AQ, AJ, AT? 3betting JJ+ and AK?


You wouldnt go too wrong with that range but you need a bluffing 3bet range too, and loosen up in bb, esp in multiway pots but be super tight in sb

Posted almost 3 years ago

dcart

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331 posts
Joined 01/2011

Interested in blind play. I tend to hammer on the frequent CO BTN openers who fold to 3 bets often with hands i cant call with like Ax and Kxs and some low PP. Il often flat with value hands like AQ AK to keep in the trash. If they call 3 bets i fold the bluffs and start re raising my value hands.

Problems occur when you 3 bet 99 TT JJ AQ even AK since you are ahead of their opening range, but then a 4 bet leaves you in a grim spot (assuming a standard player).
Maybe it is profitable to 3 bet these hands then fold to a 4 bet since they are likley only doing this with a very tight value range and dont 4 bet enough for your 3 bet to be -EV???? Anyone know?

Hands like KJ AT i sometimes call with and try to take the pot away post flop, but TBH i suck at this, CRing a dry board i usually get called, donking often gets raised. Total grey area for me, i get caught up in the process of his range, the board texture, our equity, what are we repping ect...

Posted almost 3 years ago




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