Micro Stakes Online NL Poker Forums

I feel a little left out

But you agreed with mark, so I asumed you understood, that that included you as well

I'd probably just fold here. Ignoring the small sample utg range he's likely pretty tight here. Without more info calling is really tough oop. Squeezing isn't terrible, but they likely have some tight ranges and we don't know how they react to 3 bets.

But you agreed with mark, so I asumed you understood, that that included you as well

ok, you're almost forgiven However not all of us are fellas! (1st post)

I apologize for that too, usually I actually write something along the lines of, ladies and gents, or hey guys (wich girls also include under, if i understand the language correctly) dunno why I didn't in this post.

Langerz I agree about your assessment, but don't you think they might take into consideration too, like it looks stronger when I'm sqzing and utg opener and a tagish caller from the BB, than if I'm doing it IP, or shouldn't we assume that people at 10nl are thinking this far?

And just as an fyi, I'm not doing this as a snap 3b for value, but majority as a bluff that might still be ahead when called (did that even made sense? )

You have to start thinking in terms of ranges how does KQo do against his range, so you would always call oop vs some loose passive fish with kqo but I would muck vs a 5/5 nit

I'm going to very slightly disagree with this in the case of an extreme nit simply because extreme nits often suck at postflop and their range is so transparent. A few times, I've been in the situation where I flat an extreme nit for whatever reason, flop tptk and they bet small into me for 3 streets with a medium pocket pair, just because they don't know what else to do. Alternatively you flop a pair, they cbet you x/c, turn goes check, check, you bet the river and they have a pair so they look you up. If they are playing 5/5 and they don't fold or raise postflop that's pretty much always what they have - a pair.

Similarly, if you 3-bet them and they flat IP you could have just about anything but you know exactly what they have - a pocket pair, which makes postflop pretty easy: they pretty much always either have a set or they fold on the turn. As an added comedy bonus every now and then they'll get tilted from being pushed around and call you down when you have top two or whatever and they have pocket sevens or something.

I'm going to very slightly disagree with this in the case of an extreme nit simply because extreme nits often suck at postflop and their range is so transparent. A few times, I've been in the situation where I flat an extreme nit for whatever reason, flop tptk and they bet small into me for 3 streets with a medium pocket pair, just because they don't know what else to do. Alternatively you flop a pair, they cbet you x/c, turn goes check, check, you bet the river and they have a pair so they look you up. If they are playing 5/5 and they don't fold or raise postflop that's pretty much always what they have - a pair.

Similarly, if you 3-bet them and they flat IP you could have just about anything but you know exactly what they have - a pocket pair, which makes postflop pretty easy: they pretty much always either have a set or they fold on the turn. As an added comedy bonus every now and then they'll get tilted from being pushed around and call you down when you have top two or whatever and they have pocket sevens or something.

lets assume the utg range is QQ+/AK, how is KQo ever going to outflop them? Best flop is KQx, are we ahead or behind?

I would rather have 9Ts/TJs, or a small pp so I can either flop a monster or not. No reversed imolied odds (or greatly reduced reversed implied odds.)

lets assume the utg range is QQ+/AK, how is KQo ever going to outflop them? Best flop is KQx, are we ahead or behind?

I would rather have 9Ts/TJs, or a small pp so I can either flop a monster or not. No reversed imolied odds (or greatly reduced reversed implied odds.)

QQ+ and AK is not what i would call a realistic range for even the tightest 6m players

QQ+ and AK is not what i would call a realistic range for even the tightest 6m players

This was a theoretical discussion

QQ+ and AK is not what i would call a realistic range for even the tightest 6m players

I think what he's trying to imply is that there is no hand in an UTG range that we're doing well against and can get value from without flopping two pair or better.

UTG generally isn't opening QJo, KJo or any other hand we dominate or can extract va;ue from. Our range plays pretty face up OOP, too, so it's impossible for us to extract value and when/if money goes into the pot, we're going to be almost always behind.

We may get a cbet (at best) from UTG, but once we call, anyone half decent is done with his air type/underpair hands. Or, if he's good, we end up folding the best hand. We're never going to be comfortable gettting our stack in with KQo against anyone somewhat half competant.

I think what he's trying to imply is that there is no hand in an UTG range that we're doing well against and can get value from without flopping two pair or better.

UTG generally isn't opening QJo, KJo or any other hand we dominate or can extract va;ue from. Our range plays pretty face up OOP, too, so it's impossible for us to extract value and when/if money goes into the pot, we're going to be almost always behind.

We may get a cbet (at best) from UTG, but once we call, anyone half decent is done with his air type/underpair hands. Or, if he's good, we end up folding the best hand. We're never going to be comfortable gettting our stack in with KQo against anyone somewhat half competant.

And this^^

This was a theoretical discussion

i dont understand what u mean by this. all discussion here is "theoretical". that doesnt mean that u can just give villain an inaccurate range to prove your point.

also, when huntse tried to make his point he was assuming a nitty, but still wider range than QQ+ and AK.

fwiw i do agree that calling preflop is not a good play

I think the important thing to realize is if the nit calls the 3 bet we should be giving up for the most part since his range is so strong. (If he even has a 3 bet calling range is this spot, he might always 4bet or fold)

Langerz I agree about your assessment, but don't you think they might take into consideration too, like it looks stronger when I'm sqzing and utg opener and a tagish caller from the BB, than if I'm doing it IP, or shouldn't we assume that people at 10nl are thinking this far?

I wouldn't assume they are thinking that far, if they were they probably wouldn't be so nitty.

LOL. I am going to call it the sex play for now on. UTG open raises 3.5bb, CO calls, folds to me in the BB I have J8os so I decide to "sex play" and raise 10bbs.

For this set hand I would 3bet as a bluff as I'd rather take it down here if at all possible. It becomes a lot closer I feel if we had more hands on villian that we could make asumptions as to how he plays post.