Micro Stakes Online NL Poker Forums

so here are my position-relative stats, and I am stunned by the fact that I am losing so much on the BB. any idea how I could correct that ? its all NL25 deep6 on FTP

[img=http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/923/bbownagevq7.th.png]

let's see. if you FOLDED every single blind you'd be down 1227*.25 = 307. you've lost only 214.

you're not doing as bad as you think. but you can be doing better.

let's also assume you get a walk every once in a while giving you back your 25 cents (maybe every 9 orbits or so?). thats about 7 dollars so from 307 to 300.

you get AA,KK,QQ about 5 times each during your hands and if we say you make on average 3 dollars from those hands thats 3x3x5=45 you're around 255 (300-45).

now what about all the times when it's a blind vs blind battle. you should be making a lot of money off those situations. you'll not only get back your 25 cents but you'll get their blind, or when you raise and steal it on the flop. that should be well worth 15 dollars over time.

so now just ask yourself, which hands can i play that will give me a combined EV of more than 25 dollars and you will be doing better than 214.

probably tons of the pair hands, AKs,AKo,AQs,AQo and thats it. you should push yourself over 214. fold everything else.

you probably play too many speculative hands and play them fit-or-fold on the flop, so youre almost always just c/f

hi guys thanks for the quick answers.

tubasteve, what you say is very true, however the only speculative hands I play on the BB are my light 3bets, and I think that these are the reason why I lose so much in the BB, because I very often get called (somehow noone gives me respect for having a hand) and I cbet most flops trying to balance between dry and wet flop and wether I actually have a piece of it or totally whiffed it, but then I often lose my 3bet+cbet because I don't 2barrel that often in 3bet pots, incidentally the hand I do it hte most with is AK on raggy flops which I believe is a bad fishy idea.

However I think I am getting rewarded from these light 3bets by getting fishy calls when I 3bet IP with good hands and valuetown my opponents.

How do you think I should adapt ? play less hands like joethepro is saying or keep on 3betting light but play less fit or fold (which is going to be more swingy and more difficult but I will also improve more). Examples on how and when not to play fit or fold (with small PP, SC, and Axs ?)

I think if you find that you're getting called a lot on your 3bets, I'd tighten up and 3bet a smaller, more premium range. I don't think balancing your range is important until you see that your opponents are capable of adapting to your exploitive strategy.

Just a thought on 3betting & balancing...

If someone opens & calls your 3bet, I don't think too many people will do that with the intention of checking dry flops with one overcard to their likely mid pairs. So if someone calls your 3bet IP with TT, they're probably not folding to a cbet on a 924r flop or J28r flop.

Another reason to avoid 3betting stations with hands like 98s is that OOP the play becomes difficult.. like you 3bet, flop top pair on 924r board but if you bet that flop, you're probably not getting value from worse.

I'm not really convinced that your getting paid in 3bet pots when you have premium hands would be that related to your previous history 3betting light.

I just don't think balancing your range to make it game theory optimal is that critical at microstakes.

just play against their callingrange on lowlimits. light 3bets are bluffs

Big Blind Defense

Let me know if I missed anything or if am wrong.

And as for 3betting light, pick your OPPONENTS WISELY. The only reason you would want to 3bet light is because you think it will induce him to fold the flop or slowdown on the flop, or if you think you are ahead of his range. You can't expect Laggros to slow down so you should only 3bet light if you have a good idea of what his stealing range would be and you believe you're ahead of it.

SB stealing range used for testing in pokerstove.
44+
A2o+
K5s+, K7o+
Q7s, Q8o
J7s, J9o
75s, 89o

CALLING RANGE (>35% equity but less than 48%):
22-44
A2-A6s, A2-A6o
K2s-K8s, K2o-KTo
Q2s-QTs, Q2o-QJo
J2s-JTs, J7o-JQo
65s+ (suited one gappers)
86s+ (suited two gappers, you can play down to 53s but easier to make post flop mistakes so I didn't include)
T7s+ (suited three gap)
67o+ (unsuited one gappers)
T8o+ (unsuited two gappers, including 97o isn't a mistake)
T7o+ (unsuited three gappers)

***For the smaller cards (below 6), it's easier to make a mistake post flop so I made it a minimum of 38% equity.)

***3bet anything with over 48% equity (or just under). I give a 2% for your positional advantage, it's probably worth more than that but I think this equity is lowered since the opponent could 4bet with a better hand.

3BETTING RANGE:
55+
A7s+, A7o+, (I would be conservative here since people are more inclined to raise any Ax)
K9s+, KJo+, add K9s if you're feeling spicy
QJs+

Big Blind Defense

Let me know if I missed anything or if am wrong.

And as for 3betting light, pick your OPPONENTS WISELY. The only reason you would want to 3bet light is because you think it will induce him to fold the flop or slowdown on the flop, or if you think you are ahead of his range. You can't expect Laggros to slow down so you should only 3bet light if you have a good idea of what his stealing range would be and you believe you're ahead of it.

SB stealing range used for testing in pokerstove.
44+
A2o+
K5s+, K7o+
Q7s, Q8o
J7s, J9o
75s, 89o

CALLING RANGE (>35% equity but less than 48%):
22-44
A2-A6s, A2-A6o
K2s-K8s, K2o-KTo
Q2s-QTs, Q2o-QJo
J2s-JTs, J7o-JQo
65s+ (suited one gappers)
86s+ (suited two gappers, you can play down to 53s but easier to make post flop mistakes so I didn't include)
T7s+ (suited three gap)
67o+ (unsuited one gappers)
T8o+ (unsuited two gappers, including 97o isn't a mistake)
T7o+ (unsuited three gappers)

***For the smaller cards (below 6), it's easier to make a mistake post flop so I made it a minimum of 38% equity.)

***3bet anything with over 48% equity (or just under). I give a 2% for your positional advantage, it's probably worth more than that but I think this equity is lowered since the opponent could 4bet with a better hand.

3BETTING RANGE:
55+
A7s+, A7o+, (I would be conservative here since people are more inclined to raise any Ax)
K9s+, KJo+, add K9s if you're feeling spicy
QJs+

this looks interesting for a limit game, but a lot of these hands are just terrible to defend with in NL. please don't start calling sb raises in the bb with stuff like k2o, q4o, j3s, etc - you will do very poorly. also, your theoretical stealing range is going to vary HUGELY depending on the opponent, so a lot of these hands/ranges are very unrealistic. the 3bet range is a bit better, but you don't have to raise anywhere near that wide of a range to be successful. hands like kj, a8s, 66, etc are great to play in position.

Blinds are bloody tricky to play IMHO.
I do well out the SB but have a big loss in the BB recently and need to fix this.
(Think I've got some fundamental leaks there. )

Filter for 1 limper -I was losing a bit here from completing speculative hands that lack most of the implied odds HU vs loosey with a weak hand often.

Maybe play some HU?

Another reason to avoid 3betting stations with hands like 98s is that OOP the play becomes difficult.. like you 3bet, flop top pair on 924r board but if you bet that flop, you're probably not getting value from worse.

I'm not really convinced that your getting paid in 3bet pots when you have premium hands would be that related to your previous history 3betting light.

I just don't think balancing your range to make it game theory optimal is that critical at microstakes.

I don't think you're completely correct. Calling stations will always call a cbet w/ 2 overs on a 924r., and you can check/raise the turn to get even more value
Balancing your range is important against laggy players who just wont give you any action if they notice each time you 3bet you have the goods.

me started a great thread , keep posting ppl

I don't think you're completely correct. Calling stations will always call a cbet w/ 2 overs on a 924r., and you can check/raise the turn to get even more value
Balancing your range is important against laggy players who just wont give you any action if they notice each time you 3bet you have the goods.

me started a great thread , keep posting ppl

Yeah it's a good thread czzarr, I agree with some of what you're saying.

Wow I didn't realise that people will peel with 2 overs on 924r board at microstakes. Although I'm not sure if that makes it more optimal to 3bet with 98s, if they are calling that light, maybe you should be betting more broadway hands for pair value, since suited connectors have lower pair values, and more values in their deception and straight/flush values.

I don't like 3betting OOP with SCs with no fold equity, and let's face it, if they are peeling two overs on a rag board then you have zero fold equity. If they're calling that light then against them you want to play your hands for hand values only.

Also, I agree that you occasionally need to 3bet light and show it down to get action in the future, but the optimal frequency is probably lowish. Depends on your opponents obviously. Looks like you understand the theory pretty well, so this is probably going to go around somewhat in circles if we keep wanting to argue about it...

3-betting SCs with no fold equity against fish is a recipe for disaster, much better to just call or fold those hands against fish when OOP, calling if theyre more passive and folding if theyre more aggressive (since seeing showdowns/chasing draws will be more expensive)

Yeah it's a good thread czzarr, I agree with some of what you're saying.

Wow I didn't realise that people will peel with 2 overs on 924r board at microstakes. Although I'm not sure if that makes it more optimal to 3bet with 98s, if they are calling that light, maybe you should be betting more broadway hands for pair value, since suited connectors have lower pair values, and more values in their deception and straight/flush values.

I don't like 3betting OOP with SCs with no fold equity, and let's face it, if they are peeling two overs on a rag board then you have zero fold equity. If they're calling that light then against them you want to play your hands for hand values only.

Also, I agree that you occasionally need to 3bet light and show it down to get action in the future, but the optimal frequency is probably lowish. Depends on your opponents obviously. Looks like you understand the theory pretty well, so this is probably going to go around somewhat in circles if we keep wanting to argue about it...

i agree with all you said, not gonna argue against it !
I am not sure where I said that I did 3bet 98s against calling stations, but I really didn't mean to say that if I did!