a blind hippo
208 posts
Joined 10/2010
ok i think he mostly had here 99 becouse i do not see him doing that with other hand might have aq too but he might squeeze pre, if he was leading with f/d on flop i think he will lead the turn as well, with kq he will chek call or lead again so i will fold becouse my potential is to chop or loose and im ok to loose 3 doll. is correct?
ranges and equities VS one hand and because i think so....
edit: try to think through it more deeply
Posted about 2 years ago
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brus89
80 posts
Joined 01/2010
linkwood
557 posts
Joined 08/2008
Hey all,
First off, our last winner is BananinSok. Congratulations! Contact me via PM to set up your free coaching session.
Because this was our last week, lets go ahead and discuss what to do in this hand. Given that villain led multiway and then very close to min-c/r, and given that our read is that he's a TAG I think this has to be a fold, or, at best, a call turn, fold river. Most villains don't have Qx when they c/r very often. Yes, there are very few hands that beat us, but there are very, very few hands that we beat imo. If our reads were different then perhaps our play could change to call, or even jam. But given we have a read of a tight player taking a weird line vs the pfr in a multiway pot, it seems unlikely that we're looking at a very weak or medium strength hand. Its possible, but I think unlikely enough that we can safely fold our hand.
Let me know what you all think or if you have any questions. Thanks to everyone! Its been a really fun series!
Posted about 2 years ago
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BananinSok
4 posts
Joined 04/2011
magicman4d
21 posts
Joined 04/2010
This is my first post ever on DC, so excuse me being 6 months late. I watched this series and have been dabbling online at micro/small stakes for a long time. Nits donk into raisers with over pairs and sets, since this is 4 way, and he did not reraise pre, unless he has a 3bet/squeeze percent of zero, he never has an over pair. I don't think you ever call here, so shove or fold is your only options. If he were a spaz we would love this spot, but nits just never have worse then hero's hand. I think it is obvious he had a hand that didn't want to give a free card in a multiway pot, and the donk was meant to irritate aggressive players into raising. I think your hand looks like a big club draw, or tp with a good kicker. Since he had no way of knowing you would bet a flush draw if checked to, it does not seem like he cared much if you got a free card, and his min raise is not trying to price your potential big draw out. I see aggro monkeys do this as a bluff because they see nits do this with monsters, and they hope to get a fold due to mistaken identity. I see most of the posts were counting combinations of holdings, and playing the Game theory optimal strategy but that is what you fall back on if you don't know your opponent. I run about 28/24 with 12 percent 3 bet and I have nits pull this line on me alot, mostly cause I used to pay them off all the time with AQ.
Hope this didn't completely suck
Posted over 1 year ago
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linkwood
557 posts
Joined 08/2008
This is my first post ever on DC, so excuse me being 6 months late. I watched this series and have been dabbling online at micro/small stakes for a long time. Nits donk into raisers with over pairs and sets, since this is 4 way, and he did not reraise pre, unless he has a 3bet/squeeze percent of zero, he never has an over pair. I don't think you ever call here, so shove or fold is your only options. If he were a spaz we would love this spot, but nits just never have worse then hero's hand. I think it is obvious he had a hand that didn't want to give a free card in a multiway pot, and the donk was meant to irritate aggressive players into raising. I think your hand looks like a big club draw, or tp with a good kicker. Since he had no way of knowing you would bet a flush draw if checked to, it does not seem like he cared much if you got a free card, and his min raise is not trying to price your potential big draw out. I see aggro monkeys do this as a bluff because they see nits do this with monsters, and they hope to get a fold due to mistaken identity. I see most of the posts were counting combinations of holdings, and playing the Game theory optimal strategy but that is what you fall back on if you don't know your opponent. I run about 28/24 with 12 percent 3 bet and I have nits pull this line on me alot, mostly cause I used to pay them off all the time with AQ.
Hope this didn't completely suck
It didn't suck at all. I mostly agree. One thing to note though is that while I agree that reads are very, very important, doing things like counting combinations or other general math is also important. One should really feed the other. By that I mean that our reads guide our math. So if we were read less we'd go with a general hand range, count the combos, figure out our equity, etc. But if we have a more specific read then we use that read to narrow down the hand range, count the combos, figure out our equity, etc. I'm sure you didn't mean that math is worthless, I just want to make sure that's clear for everyone ready this.
Posted over 1 year ago
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magicman4d
21 posts
Joined 04/2010
I certainly did not mean that math is idiotic at all. I just think that a nit is not spazzing out or turning a worse queen into a bluff. I think he is balancing the nuts with 2nd and 3rd nuts. I love the math of poker, but I think in the hierarchy of information we are getting from the hand (HUD stats, timing tells, betting lines, etc.), the nit factor is pretty high on the list of determinates.
Posted over 1 year ago
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linkwood
557 posts
Joined 08/2008
I certainly did not mean that math is idiotic at all. I just think that a nit is not spazzing out or turning a worse queen into a bluff. I think he is balancing the nuts with 2nd and 3rd nuts. I love the math of poker, but I think in the hierarchy of information we are getting from the hand (HUD stats, timing tells, betting lines, etc.), the nit factor is pretty high on the list of determinates.
Basically agree. Thanks. 
Posted over 1 year ago
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minimalist
177 posts
Joined 09/2011
I agree that this is a clear fold, and I feel very strongly that villain has 99, it just seems to make perfect sense to me. Since he is rather nitty, PF he may not want to go for a squeeze OOP vs several players. He bets out on the flop for a combination of value and to protect against flush draws given that it is a 4-way pot on a two-tone board. A slightly larger than min-CR on the turn when the board pairs just screams strength, and he is obviously committed given he just stuck in almost half his remaining stack. Someone that plays that tight, I just never see then doing something like this with a TPGK hand like KQ (AQ I think would've 3B PF).
In any case, excellent work! Linkwood, have you done any other shorts in this "results next week" type of format?
Posted 2 months ago
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