Micro Stakes Online NL Poker Forums

Hey Everyone-

This ended up being five players to the flop. Reads and stats below.

UTG- Playing 39/15/2.2af over 42 hands. No other reads.

BTN- 22/12/2.0 af over 152 hands. Tight-passive player. Doesnt like to fold. Have seen him flat with premiums IP.

SB- 23/17/2.8af over 192 hands. TAGish reg. Multi-Tables. Have seen him playing as many as 6 tables.

BB- 29/22/.08af over 126 hands. Plays fairly loose preflop and somewhat passive post.

Is the turn shove total spew in this spot? Considering that it was a min-raise preflop should I assume someone could be holding the case 4 here?

Full Tilt Poker $5.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1259301
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BTN: $3.72
SB: $6.31
BB: $5.60
UTG: $3.63
Hero (MP): $5.00
CO: $6.97

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero is MP with 9 9
UTG raises to $0.10, Hero calls $0.10, 1 fold, BTN calls $0.10, SB calls $0.08, BB calls $0.05

Flop: ($0.50) 4 4 4 (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets $0.25, Hero calls $0.25, BTN raises to $1, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls $0.75, Hero calls $0.75

Turn: ($3.50) 7 (3 players)
UTG checks, [color=red]Hero bets $3.90

I think your first mistake here is flatting on the flop.

1) You are missing out on value from anyone holding pretty big cards (KQ/AK/QJ) who may not want to fold this flop. This is value you won't be able to get on later streets when there are fewer cards to come.

2) You have done nothing to narrow villains' ranges down. If you raise here, you take the momentum in the hand and force everyone to react to your aggression, clarifying villains' holdings.

Think of a permutation of this hand where BTN flats instead of raising and UTG still flats behind....what turn cards do you want to see? Any 10/J/Q/K/A almost certainly puts you behind, a 2 or 3 probably doesn't get you any value anyway, and any 5/6/7/8 actually puts you behind any smaller pocket pairs you were ahead of on the flop.

As played, now you are shooting completely in the dark by calling a raise from BTN that UTG flatted as well. Moreover, you are basically in the same spot theorized in the last paragraph when he flats, except now you have put more money in the middle. Is he bluffing? Is UTG just a big calling-station fish? Do either have overs? Slowplay KK? The case 4? I don't think you can narrow this range down for either villain with any accuracy the way you played this hand.

This only compounds your problems on the turn, which is where I think you made another mistake.

I don't understand your turn bet at all here given your massive larger-than-pot size bet. What are you trying to accomplish with this bet? What are you hoping to get value from? AK? KQ? Basically against those hands you are betting for protection against a hand that only has 6 outs. The only hands I can see you getting any value from with a bet are 22/33/55/66/88 but you pretty much foreclosed that possibility when you made it so large.

The only thing you accomplish with this bet is to fold out hands you beat, like AK/AQ and smaller pocket pairs.

I would definitely raise UTG on this flop. This will make playing this hand so much easier for you. It can get you value from AK/AQ or smaller pairs, and will allow you to fold confidently to a huge re-raise, or if you have the right read, to snap off a bluff with over-cards, depending on which player re-raises you. If you get flatted, it allows you to proceed on the turn with substantially clarified ranges for each villain and feel better about a fold on later streets.

If I didn't raise this flop, then I would push/fold BTN's flop raise/UTG's flat call. Most likely a fold, tbh -- but it may be +EV if someone is willing to snap you off with a bluff-catcher like AK and you get the dead money sometimes.

I raise UTG on the flop.

As played, I: 1) fold to the BTN raise/Flat from UTG; 2) I would never bet this turn, and if I did, I would not make it so large. I would try to get to a cheap showdown and hope I held.

Hey OGCN1904-

Thanks for the reponse/advise.

I felt that flatting was good becuase it would keep weaker hands in. I should have been looking for value preflop in this spot though while folding out weaker hands.

I need to start slowing down and working through these spots. Reflecting back on this hand I was clearly just looking at my hand and not considering my opponents ranges. The turn shove is spew considering what villians will call with. I'm not getting any value and only getting called by better hand. Obviously, I didnt have a plan for this hand. My though process needs some refining.

Thanks again.