hayes13
856 posts
Joined 12/2008
Cool video that last hand was interesting,
any reads on what villain is doing with overpairs on all streets?
Is he raising your donk on the flop? are you calling on and check folding which turns?
or are you just folding flop because he is only raising flop with hands that you are drawing to two outs against?
Cheers,
BEN
Posted about 3 years ago
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inavacuum
1147 posts
Joined 04/2008
Cool video that last hand was interesting,
any reads on what villain is doing with overpairs on all streets?
Is he raising your donk on the flop? are you calling on and check folding which turns?
or are you just folding flop because he is only raising flop with hands that you are drawing to two outs against?
Cheers,
BEN
He's calling with all his overpairs for the most part. He might raise the river with KK+ and better, he might also raise the flop with KK+. If he raises the flop we'd have to strongly consider ditching the hand because of how passive villain is.
Posted about 3 years ago
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Bean Box
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swampdonkey
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RJMcLeod
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TecmoSuperBowl
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MeanDog
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Antny
33 posts
Joined 10/2008
Time Link to 00:03:26
Q6 hand (3barrel):
when we barrel the K we basically only rep Kx. And if we had Kx we would not 3barrel knowing that the other dude has some weakish hand. I guess it still works cause they just fold but a smart player will be aware of his weak perceived range and also knows that we would check back the turn with TT or 8x, so I think by checking back the turn and betting the river we actually sell a hand that wants thin value from 8x 77 a lot better which doesnt mean that you actually get the folds.
Even though the 3barrel might work a lot vs 77 type of hands i still dont like it cause it is totally unbalanced. Why would we ever bet 3 times when we know he only has a weak pair for value and then 16 into 20 on the river?
Posted about 3 years ago
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Antny
33 posts
Joined 10/2008
Time Link to 00:07:31
44 hand:
So if his raise on the flop reps absolutely zero your 3bet actually reps less than that. I mean , yeah it is kind of tough to try to get to SD with 44 here oop but why would we ever 3bet for value here knowing he bluffs 80-100 %. Now it still probably works cause people won't shove cause they don't think about all these things but if his flopraise only can be a bluff your 3bet is the bluffiest line ever.
Posted about 3 years ago
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Antny
33 posts
Joined 10/2008
Time Link to 00:24:54
AA (induce c/r)
I like how you played it pre and even though it is hard to imagine he keeps bluffing i still think flatting is better because:
- he reps Kx or better and you get the money in anyway on later streets
- if he has air he might try to bluff you off JJ or Qx even if it is only 10 % of the time because you would not really bet this on the flop, but maybe in the heat of the fight he doesnt think about this
- no need for us to rep JT and get a call of Qx cause Qx doesnt c/r flop, i know you did not stated this as a reason
- otoh we get it in vs his JT, hm i guess it s really close
Posted about 3 years ago
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Antny
33 posts
Joined 10/2008
AA hand (same timelink as above)
you say you would be much more inclined to 4bet AQ preflop vs him. Can you explain why? I was thinking about this lately and i came with calling AQ cause i cant call a 5bet and why turning it into a bluff, i might aswell you know 4bet 53o.
I guess there is also merit in just taking it down pre giving his aggro postflopstyle and we only flop 30 % but hey you really dont need AQ then imo.
Posted about 3 years ago
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Antny
33 posts
Joined 10/2008
Time Link to 00:35:30
This hand was really nice because it shows that people take different lines with bluffs compared to their value hands.
- i can see him rather calling with an overpair vs your donkbet
- i can see you not leading a set here obv, and not bet/3bet 77
I still like the donk/3bet a lot and I am always unsure in these spots in terms of leading or c/r ... what if he calls and i brick. But leading leads to less tougher spots as i just learned although it would be a rly nice spot for him to shove A high but nobody does that and so do i but if you really think about it you end up with figuring out that a bet/3bet can only be a draw here and Ahigh beats these.
Maybe I watched too much Grindcore
Btw where is he? Doesnt look like there will be another episode of TTRL?
Posted about 3 years ago
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inavacuum
1147 posts
Joined 04/2008
Q6 hand (3barrel):
when we barrel the K we basically only rep Kx. And if we had Kx we would not 3barrel knowing that the other dude has some weakish hand. I guess it still works cause they just fold but a smart player will be aware of his weak perceived range and also knows that we would check back the turn with TT or 8x, so I think by checking back the turn and betting the river we actually sell a hand that wants thin value from 8x 77 a lot better which doesnt mean that you actually get the folds.
Even though the 3barrel might work a lot vs 77 type of hands i still dont like it cause it is totally unbalanced. Why would we ever bet 3 times when we know he only has a weak pair for value and then 16 into 20 on the river?
I think it is a mistake to try and be balanced vs a NL50 reg. He will fold less often vs a line where we actively try and rep a thin value hand simply because, although he is aware of what cards we may want to bluff, he's still playing off his own hand strength. He is a lot more comfortable folding a bluffcatcher on the river vs a 3barrel than deciding what our range for going for thin value on the river is after pot controling the turn.
Now it still probably works cause people won't shove cause they don't think about all these things but if his flopraise only can be a bluff your 3bet is the bluffiest line ever.
You are correct and also answered any questions in the process. It doesn't matter that we're repping a bluff because his gameplan does not include continuing beyond his flop raise.
I still like the donk/3bet a lot and I am always unsure in these spots in terms of leading or c/r ... what if he calls and i brick. But leading leads to less tougher spots as i just learned although it would be a rly nice spot for him to shove A high but nobody does that and so do i but if you really think about it you end up with figuring out that a bet/3bet can only be a draw here and Ahigh beats these.
I don't think we should lead with only draws - do you? On many boards a lead can rep more hands than a CR where villain will be inclined to put us on a draw if possible and take what he percieves to be the appropriate action if we did have a draw, which usually involves calling and waiting for blanks. I find leading a wide range allows us to more easily take control of the hand.
Re Grindcore, I have no idea. I would recommend asking in the R&D forum.
Posted about 3 years ago
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Antny
33 posts
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inavacuum
1147 posts
Joined 04/2008
I am not saying that. I said bet/3bet is only draws. A bet can be a draw or medium hand, rarely a set. But you dont 3bet the medium hands.
So a lead can not be a strong hand? If your opponent thinks you only bet/3bet draws, should you not bet/3bet strong made hands?
Posted about 3 years ago
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