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Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by inavacuum (Micro/Small Stakes)

But can you just elaborate a little more on why check shoving the turn in the Q T hand is so bad?

I'll use this reply to deal with the questions about CRing that turn, rather than replying to both of you individually. I should have gone into more depth about why I don't like a CR in the video so thanks for pointing the spot out.

First off, although he has a large number of floats in his range he also a number of legitimate made hands (like the one he ended up having, and better). If he has one of those he may choose to check back the turn specifically to avoid the CR when he knows I'm likely to CR often, his hand can't stand it and is only likely to get 2 streets of value in the first place and maybe I'll bluff my missed draws on a blank river. If he does check back the turn this is a big problem for us because he now just calls on a river that helps us (or worse, folds) and on a river that doesn't help us we have close to no fold equity. I do think however that I can move him off the majority of his weak made hands if I bet almost all rivers whether I get there or not. He likes to float but he's not a station - he realizes that, for example, KT is no good vs a river bet. Then we have the issue that he will do some hand reading if we do CR the turn and may come to the conclusion that the only possible range we'd CR would be draws and maybe some air and this may actually make him get it in even lighter than TP. If I'm checking the turn with a weak made hand he'll expect me to call, not CR, and he will rule out hands as strong as AK that he expects to always bet the turn.

given his passiveness, do you think you could get away with betting a little bigger on the turn (say 11 or so) to set up stacks for river shove?

I certainly don't mind that. The problem in my eyes is that his range is so incredibly wide that a larger bet may just force him to fold everything but his range of middling pairs. I think he'll call the smaller bet with his middling pairs and also all of his overcards and any draws and then also call a river bet with those middling pairs, leaving us earning more overall. I'm not sure he calls a river shove after a larger turn bet with a good % of his weaker pairs. If I had more information I could easily decide on taking a different sizing line.

Do you think that the play at NL10, NL25 and NL50 is comparable and that one can apply the same strategies? Or is there a large difference between NL10 and NL50, for example?

I have never put in a significant volume at NL10, nor do I have any NL10 students (for obvious reasons) so I can't give you a definintive answer. My feeling would be that NL10 would be quite different to NL50. Though site by site the skill gap can vary wildly between the stakes.

There are some good regulars at 10nl where you can try it against.
I know some solid players at 10nl and I have spend a lot of time at 10nl myself, not saying I was super solid when I played 10nl but I was capable of folding.

You really need to observe, like Tim says later in the video. I would say that most regulars at 10nl are not capable of hand reading, but I wouldn't say that nobody is capable of folding or hand reading.

This ratio changes at 25nl from my expierence.

thanks for the reply

...legitimate made hands (like the one he ended up having, and better). If he has one of those he may choose to check back the turn specifically to avoid the CR when he knows I'm likely to CR often, his hand can't stand it and is only likely to get 2 streets of value in the first place and maybe I'll bluff my missed draws on a blank river.

Agreed - if your read is that he knows you will be check raising the turn with a decent regularity. But will a "pathalogical floater" really be thinking on this level?

My thinking was that if he loved floating as you say, he will be floating all sorts of hands like AT, AQ, QT, 67s, Axs, 22-77. What will he be doing with those hands if you check to him? Checking back and hoping to get to showdown/ hit the gutshot on the turn? Or taking a stab. If he is taking a stab at a large percentage of these hands surely there is more value in check raising thereby earning a bit more from this (significant) air portion of his range (remembering of course that you only need approx 50% FE to break even on the C/R).

Then we have the issue that he will do some hand reading if we do CR the turn and may come to the conclusion that the only possible range we'd CR would be draws and maybe some air and this may actually make him get it in even lighter than TP. If I'm checking the turn with a weak made hand he'll expect me to call, not CR, and he will rule out hands as strong as AK that he expects to always bet the turn.

Agreed that you are to an extent polarizing your range here if you check raise. But if he is worried about us check-raising, doesn't that mean that he won't bet these hands at all? And that his range is therefore polarised between strong made hands and air which must, because of his floating tendencies be skewed more towards air?


I dunno, I think it is a really interesting spot. I think it must boil down to the amount that he is betting the turn rather than checking it back with hands like JTs, and 22-77.

Inavacuum and SnappieVouz, just wanted to add to what everyone else is saying - this is great content for micro, and the format is excellent. Barreling is something I struggle with, and you gave me some great ideas to think about. Raising the turn against thinking regs seems so ldo after you pointed it out, so I'm feeling pretty dense never to have thought about it quite that way.

Oh, and immediately after watching, I trapped a good reg in a spot where I flatted pf a hand that I would've auto 3bet normally, and got to play for stacks (and win) in a spot that (knowing his hand now) I would've only won his pf open raise - thanks for getting me to think!!!

I dunno, I think it is a really interesting spot. I think it must boil down to the amount that he is betting the turn rather than checking it back with hands like JTs, and 22-77.

I think a key point is that yes, he will bet/fold the hands you mention, but if we bet he will also often float again with the intent to bet most rivers. This means we get him to shove as a bluff when we hit (as happened) and he will also fold those hands when we bet the river ourselves if we need to bluff and we earn the same as when he folds to a turn CR, the difference being he doesn't level himself into a light call as often.

I think a key point is that yes, he will bet/fold the hands you mention, but if we bet he will also often float again with the intent to bet most rivers. This means we get him to shove as a bluff when we hit (as happened) and he will also fold those hands when we bet the river ourselves if we need to bluff and we earn the same as when he folds to a turn CR, the difference being he doesn't level himself into a light call as often.

I think this is the best explanation you've given, it makes a lot of sense.

Still don't think a turn check/shove is ridiculous though, I think its definitely +EV.

Very nice video, looking forward to next week. And thanks for the responses!

Extremely good video.

I think a key point is that yes, he will bet/fold the hands you mention, but if we bet he will also often float again with the intent to bet most rivers. This means we get him to shove as a bluff when we hit (as happened) and he will also fold those hands when we bet the river ourselves if we need to bluff and we earn the same as when he folds to a turn CR, the difference being he doesn't level himself into a light call as often.

This is great plan IMO.

- providing we got the info he floats 2 barrels often enough

Thanks for clarification

Time Link to 00:35:45

If the villain shoves over our reraise are we folding here? Running some equity calcs vs his range it looks like we're around 33% equity at best.

However we'll have to call around $27 to win $71. Which means we need around 38% equity. So our 33% equity is close. If we throw in a single bluff we get real close to 38%. He may be never bluffing here though.

Also, awesome video so far! Great job guys. Definitely digging the format.

If the villain shoves over our reraise are we folding here? Running some equity calcs vs his range it looks like we're around 33% equity at best.

However we'll have to call around $27 to win $71. Which means we need around 38% equity. So our 33% equity is close. If we throw in a single bluff we get real close to 38%. He may be never bluffing here though.

Also, awesome video so far! Great job guys. Definitely digging the format.

Vs this particular villain I would call. I think he has multiple bluffs in his range. Vs some other villains I'd be folding.

Vs this particular villain I would call. I think he has multiple bluffs in his range. Vs some other villains I'd be folding.

Thanks for the response. That makes sense. So basically it comes down to whether or not the villain has any bluffs in his range here. That's what the equity calcs seem to show when I was playing with ranges.

this is one of the best videos i've seen on DC. nice job guys.

I think this is the best explanation you've given, it makes a lot of sense.

Still don't think a turn check/shove is ridiculous though, I think its definitely +EV.

Very nice video, looking forward to next week. And thanks for the responses!

+1