Micro Stakes Online NL Poker Forums

I have enjoyed all the new NL videos very much.

What I wonder though is how applicable are some of these concepts and theories to the lowest stakes 25NL-100NL.

I very much like hearing the thought process of Krantz/White Lime, and the concepts that Sensei/Vanessa taught.

Though I think that some of these styles and theory of play might be too high of a level for the games that I am commonly in and seem to not be able to beat.

Am I wasting my time by watching these videos for the microstakes I play?

I have enjoyed all the new NL videos very much.

What I wonder though is how applicable are some of these concepts and theories to the lowest stakes 25NL-100NL.

I very much like hearing the thought process of Krantz/White Lime, and the concepts that Sensei/Vanessa taught.

Though I think that some of these styles and theory of play might be too high of a level for the games that I am commonly in and seem to not be able to beat.

Am I wasting my time by watching these videos for the microstakes I play?

I don't think so. Maybe Messiah and tubasteve can provide better insight into this, since they coach guys at those stakes?

The analogy I like to use is that it's still the same game - 2 cards to a player and 5 in the middle, and the way to approach thinking about that game does not change. You just have more variables to consider at the higher stakes.

I have enjoyed all the new NL videos very much.

What I wonder though is how applicable are some of these concepts and theories to the lowest stakes 25NL-100NL.

I very much like hearing the thought process of Krantz/White Lime, and the concepts that Sensei/Vanessa taught.

Though I think that some of these styles and theory of play might be too high of a level for the games that I am commonly in and seem to not be able to beat.

Am I wasting my time by watching these videos for the microstakes I play?

Great question(s) ruffneck, I will respond after I finish my session.

I have enjoyed all the new NL videos very much.

What I wonder though is how applicable are some of these concepts and theories to the lowest stakes 25NL-100NL.

I very much like hearing the thought process of Krantz/White Lime, and the concepts that Sensei/Vanessa taught.

Though I think that some of these styles and theory of play might be too high of a level for the games that I am commonly in and seem to not be able to beat.

Am I wasting my time by watching these videos for the microstakes I play?

You are definitely not wasting your time by watching these videos. One thing I want to point out before going further is when you mention "...for the game I am commonly in and seem to not be able to beat." I would first spend some quality time with pokertracker and go through and analyze the biggest winners and toughest "regulars" you seem to come against at the stakes you play, and see what it is they do that makes them winners (and so difficult to play against). Go through their hand histories of big pots they have won/lost, and take a look at the lines they take in various situations.

With that being said, though there are "unconvential" styles/lines in these videos, the most important thing a micro and SSNL player can take away from this is the hand reading. I think you are more thinking on the micro level of the specific lines the coaches actually take, when we could be taking out the situations from a macro level and applying them to our current stakes.After all as krantz said, same 2 cards to a player and 5 in the middle, regardless of the stakes. A lot of the students I have had when I first start with them, they say "I want to learn LAG moves," which is what this reminds me of.

Watch each video multiple times and see how the instructors explain hand ranges of their opponents and what their opponents view their ranges to be. This can then be applied to the same situations, board textures, etc at your current stakes. As we know, increased proficiency in hand reading will lead to a higher winrate from .05/.10 to pr1nnyraid's 500/1k Ivey deathmatch.

Great post Messiah.

I just would like to add that you certainly CAN use the information covered in "Unconventional Wisdom" in your uNL games; it just takes practice finding profitable spots. Post some difficult hands, and we will all be happy to help you distinguish the profitable spots to make moves from the unprofitable ones.

-tubasteve

my series with entity focuses on 100nl and 200nl, and i think both whitelime and krantz catered to people with less nl experience in their first episode.

and even if you can't relate a concept directly to your game, you can still take their thought process and apply it to more general situations. in vanessa/dan's video, they talk about shoving with hands that have 3-5 outs in 3-bet pots. even if you play in a game where there's not much 3-betting, you can apply this advice to a similar situation like playing against a bad LAG short stack. the underlying idea is that in situations where the stacks are short compared to the pot, you can semibluff a wider range given some fold equity. this situation comes up every day no matter what stakes you play. in that particular series/video, the plays are all fancy because they're taking a large sample of hands and picking out a few examples where they didn't fold, but looking at the big picture and their reasoning can help tremendously in figuring out your own counter-strategy for your opponents

What type of hands should I post, to me every hand is problematic for one reason or another.

Also to reference Messiahs post, my first post was initiated with the fact that I went back through PT after trying to apply some more liberal 3-betting and 4 betting after seeing the videos and dusting off a bunch of buyins.

I am a recreational player, so I don't get in loads of hands, and I don't often see alot of the same players. So what a successful 50NL player is looking like to me in my DB, is get it in with a draw an hit, or get a bigger overpair put all your money in pf and win.

What type of hands should I post, to me every hand is problematic for one reason or another.

Post a few of the hands where you lost 100bb after 3&4 betting and we can take a look to see where you may be straying. While you are reviewing, when you see the same situations where you are having trouble, those are likely the ones you should post.

I didn't actually have any pots where I 3bet/4bet and lost over 100bb except one where I 3bet 44 on the button flopped bottom set and guy flopped top set, thats just something you can't help.

Here are two hands that is a common theme in how I lose the most money.......(where is the hand converter?)

The first being I feel like I have a huge draw, and so I decide to put in my money with the draws and FE. In my experience though, nobody seems to fold to me and I don't make many of my draws, should I be putting my money in like this?

Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

UTG: $8.50
UTG+1: $48.55
UTG+2: $34.15
MP1: $31.60
MP2: $55.00
CO: $25.15
BTN: $8.75
SB: $49.50
Hero (BB): $50.60

Pre Flop: Hero is BB with A 6
4 folds, MP2 calls $0.50, CO calls $0.50, 1 fold, SB calls $0.25, Hero checks

Flop: ($2.00) 4 8 7 (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1.50, MP2 folds, CO raises to $9, SB folds, Hero raises to $50.10 all in, CO calls $15.65 all in

Turn: ($51.30) K (2 players - 2 are all in)

River: ($51.30) Q (2 players - 2 are all in)


In this hand, I don't know what the hell I am doing here, but I feel like my hand is too strong to fold and too weak to put in more money so I just go weak. Granted in the first hand this guy flops bottom set, but routinely what happens is they show me TP or middle pair with terrible kicker. In the second hand I seem to have control then I get confused, then I get blown out of the water by a turn push. I do these type of things alot. This bad play and constant bleeding of money, added into some bad beats and that I fail to maximize my big hands makes me a 40+ buyin loser at 25NL & 50NL.

Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

UTG: $18.95
MP: $29.40
CO: $49.75
BTN: $58.40
SB: $63.35
Hero (BB): $50.20

Pre Flop: Hero is BB with T T
UTG calls $0.50, MP calls $0.50, 3 folds, Hero raises to $2.50, UTG calls $2, MP calls $2

Flop: ($7.75) 7 9 2 (3 players)
Hero bets $5, UTG calls $5, MP calls $5

Turn: ($22.75) K (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP checks

River: ($22.75) 3 (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $4.50, MP calls $4.50, Hero calls $4.50



Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

BB: $48.55
UTG: $63.85
UTG+1: $59.30
UTG+2: $14.45
MP1: $28.85
MP2: $53.00
Hero (CO): $42.45
BTN: $72.40
SB: $30.05

Pre Flop: Hero is CO with 8 8
5 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, 1 fold, SB calls $1.25, BB calls $1

Flop: ($4.50) 5 7 5 (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $2, SB folds, BB calls $2

Turn: ($8.50) 9 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $5, BB raises to $45.05 all in, Hero folds

Hey ruffneck,

Try converting these over at the Hand Converter. I'll edit your post for the time being to make it easier on everyone to read through them quickly.

As far as everything else goes, we will have standalone videos by both Tubasteve and Messiah, and the series with Josh and WiltOnTilt should really help people bridge the gap all the way from $50NL up to $5/10NL. That's one of the biggest thoughts we've put into the design of everything -- the series and standalones are all meant to mesh into a holistic poker education, rather than just teaching random specific situations and conditions where you might make one type of play.

thanks,
Rob

Hi ruff,

There are definitely some fundamental problems here.

Hand 1- It's a limped pot. You have absolutely no fold equity with your reraise, and generally these big raises in limped pots are always at least two pair, so I would either call if you can get paid off when you hit your outs (depends on your opponent) or just fold. There is no shame in folding if it's the best play, even though you COULD potentially win if you hit your outs.

Hand 2- What do you expect to see that you beat, especially when two people put in money ahead of you? I don't even think twice here and move on. Sure, you might beat the bettor, but you expect to beat the caller too?

Hand 3- Think about why you are betting the turn. Then check back if you don't have a good reason to bet.

I disagree about hand one Krantz. He has a 12 out draw and the guy only has like $15 more behind (and 50bb to start the hand). I see no reason not to stick it in and gamble on the flop. Fullstacked I would tend to agree.

I disagree about hand one Krantz. He has a 12 out draw and the guy only has like $15 more behind (and 50bb to start the hand). I see no reason not to stick it in and gamble on the flop. Fullstacked I would tend to agree.

heh, something you'll learn about me is that i choose to ignore stack sizes in hhs. you're right - ruff, treat my response as if he had 100bb.

Since these type of hands is where I am losing a significant amount of money. What is recommended to plug these leaks? Tighten up? Play more aggressively PF? Fold on later streets a bit more?

Since these type of hands is where I am losing a significant amount of money. What is recommended to plug these leaks? Tighten up? Play more aggressively PF? Fold on later streets a bit more?

Just think about WHY you are making your actions. Once you start reasoning out more than just "oh i have top pair, i call", then you're going to start seeing things way more clearly.