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I´m flatting here cause I think I´m far ahead of his range and I think I can´t 4-bet for value or as a bluff buut still what do you think preflop ??? than OTF ?? he is cbetting about 54% of hands. OTF I´m totally lost if we can then what OTT if he bet again if he check ?? Just please give me some help

Poker Stars $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 4 players - View hand 1864900
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

SB: $7.40 - VPIP: 33, PFR: 18, 3B: 0, AF: 1.4, Hands: 122
BB: $10.00 - VPIP: 26, PFR: 20, 3B: 8, AF: 2.3, Hands: 133
CO: $13.96 - VPIP: 29, PFR: 27, 3B: 0, AF: 2.0, Hands: 45
Hero (BTN): $10.48

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BTN with Q Q
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.25, 1 fold, BB raises to $0.90, Hero calls $0.65

Flop: ($1.85) K 9 8 (2 players)
BB bets $1.30, Hero ???

Easy call on flop. He has a 8% 3 bet range so he has air some % of the time, the flop is very dry he should be c betting this every time.

As for pre flop why cant you 4 bet for value? Do you have any reads that tell you this, if not a 4 bet for value is my default play readless.

You can 4bet for value pre.

As played I call the flop and am not particularly thrilled about it unless this is his standard bet cbet size and he doesn't cbet smaller in 3bet pots. Fold to further action after that.

I feel that If I´m 4-betting pre he is folding a lot AQ,KQ,JJ,TT and only continue with QQ+,AK

If you ever want to 4b, this is an absolutely mandatory 4bet.'

Your reasons for not 4betting "value and bluff" are a good example of how those words are confusing and can do more harm than good. They are not allowing you to think about the whole picture.

As others have stated, you can feel comfortable 4betting this guy pre with QQ for value without a read telling you otherwise. You will often get called with AK, JJ, and some villians may even call with AQs (not likely), as well as other QQ. By 4betting, you can get HIM to fold his QQ, and also get calls from other hands that will snap fold unless the flop smacks them in the face. Now, if you 4bet and the flop comes A,K,x, two toned, then that sucks. This is +EV mathematically, but it is also +ev because next orbit when you get AA you can 4bet those as well, and they will be called! If you never 4bet anything besdies KK+, you will never get stacks with it pre. There's nothing like 4betting AA and having some 5bet shove AI with AK, KK, QQ because he thinks he has fold equity. Preflop 4bet here!

As played, I think we can check the call. Even though his cbet percentage isn't huge, this is a classic cbet flop and most PFRs are gonna cbet here with 100% of their range, and since we underrepped our hand preflop, I think out hand crushes his range. I may even c/c his dbl barrel if its a blank, but I would fold to an A dbl barrel.

As played, what do you guys think we should do if we call preflop here, and he

1)bets 2/3 pot on blank
2)checks blank to us

I think we need to bet if he checks to us on turn to extract value from his middle pocket pairs and his suited connector types that are OESD, pair + draw, bdfd etc. Readless, however, really not very much variation in EV either way, probably.

Ok and can you explain it in more depth please??. Thanks I would appreciate it

As others have stated, you can feel comfortable 4betting this guy pre with QQ for value without a read telling you otherwise. You will often get called with AK, JJ, and some villians may even call with AQs (not likely), as well as other QQ. By 4betting, you can get HIM to fold his QQ, and also get calls from other hands that will snap fold unless the flop smacks them in the face. Now, if you 4bet and the flop comes A,K,x, two toned, then that sucks. This is +EV mathematically, but it is also +ev because next orbit when you get AA you can 4bet those as well, and they will be called! If you never 4bet anything besdies KK+, you will never get stacks with it pre. There's nothing like 4betting AA and having some 5bet shove AI with AK, KK, QQ because he thinks he has fold equity. Preflop 4bet here!

As played, I think we can check the call. Even though his cbet percentage isn't huge, this is a classic cbet flop and most PFRs are gonna cbet here with 100% of their range, and since we underrepped our hand preflop, I think out hand crushes his range. I may even c/c his dbl barrel if its a blank, but I would fold to an A dbl barrel.

As played, what do you guys think we should do if we call preflop here, and he

1)bets 2/3 pot on blank
2)checks blank to us

I think we need to bet if he checks to us on turn to extract value from his middle pocket pairs and his suited connector types that are OESD, pair + draw, bdfd etc. Readless, however, really not very much variation in EV either way, probably.

Definitely your post makes a lot of sence and thank you for that. But does that means that we don´t feel comfortable playing hands like QQ or AK postflop IP when we have card advantage and positional advantage.... What are our range here for flatting if any exist against various types of villians. Then are there some examples where we are happy to flat instead of 4-betting and also what is our range here for 4betting??. Thanks

If you knew he was 3betting polarized (JJ+, AK, Axs, K7s, Q8s, 79s, other random suited stuff) out of the blinds vs late position opens then flatting with JJ/QQ becomes better because your hand completely crushes his range but you probably won't be getting it in very good if you 4bet. Especially with JJ at NL10 because people will probably not be 3betting 99/TT planning to shove over your 4bet in his spot at this limit simply because people won't be 4bet bluffing enough. Whereas if you knew he was depolarized (AK AQ, AJ, KQ, 99+ or smth) his range will have more hands that have an overcard or two if you have JJ in this spot so you should be more inclined to 4bet to protect your hand and not let him see a flop.

If he is polarized and you flat pre you can call every cbet because he'll have his nut hands that continue firing the turn and his air hands that are one and done for the most part (he'll have way more air than nuts).

I you have a subscription here I think Whale Tales covered this stuff pretty well.

If you knew he was 3betting polarized (JJ+, AK, Axs, K7s, Q8s, 79s, other random suited stuff) out of the blinds vs late position opens then flatting with JJ/QQ becomes better because your hand completely crushes his range but you probably won't be getting it in very good if you 4bet. Especially with JJ at NL10 because people will probably not be 3betting 99/TT planning to shove over your 4bet in his spot at this limit simply because people won't be 4bet bluffing enough. Whereas if you knew he was depolarized (AK AQ, AJ, KQ, 99+ or smth) his range will have more hands that have an overcard or two if you have JJ in this spot so you should be more inclined to 4bet to protect your hand and not let him see a flop.

If he is polarized and you flat pre you can call every cbet because he'll have his nut hands that continue firing the turn and his air hands that are one and done for the most part (he'll have way more air than nuts).

I you have a subscription here I think Whale Tales covered this stuff pretty well.

From a concept perspective, I see you're point... but I'm not so sure the math supports it. I think even then it's close and from a range perspective you really enjoy having QQ/JJ in the 4betting range.

If you run in it CREV I think the EV of both calling and 4betting will be very close if we make this guy a complete maniac to the point where it's unlikely. So, it's probably still just a 4b.

Vs is unkbown i dont 4 bet with JJ, only when i see them stack off with AQ or JJ i begin to 4 bet JJ myself.
OP QQ vs a range of QQ+, AK gives us 40% equity, with the dead money in the pot getting it in as a default against that range is +EV as well as the fact he could flat the 4bet OOP with JJ TT AQs etc. Also we could make him fold AK some % of the time which is better than flipping imo.

BUT i dont play 10nl, maybe the average players default 5 bet jam range at these stakes is AA/KK obviously making getting stacks in a bad idea. That does not mean i would not 4 bet though as nobody folds QQ AK pre at these stakes for sure meaning if they arent folding and they arent 5 bet jamming with these hands, they are calling 4 bets OOP with them which is win for us.