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Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1861756
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MP: $72.08
CO: $50.00
BTN: $75.92
SB: $74.92
Hero (BB): $98.17
UTG: $56.60

UTG has only sat down recently but is relatively unknown at this point but doesn't have droolish stats. The SB likes to donk when he wants to turn his small holdings like 4th pair into a bluff, and in a hit where he played k8s as pfr with a k on the board he check called 3 streets on a dry board.

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BB with Q Q
UTG raises to $1.50, 3 folds, SB raises to $4, Hero calls $3.50, UTG calls $2.50

Only called the 3bet because I think cold 4 betting gets rid of anything I beat.

Flop: ($12.00) 4 7 2 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $8, UTG folds, SB calls $8

When SB checks I put him on AK/AQ or other broadway combos because if I think he has s large pair he'd value bet here.

Turn: ($28.00) T (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $20, SB raises to $62.92 all in, Hero?

After he calls I'm thinking perhaps mid pocket pair 88-JJ but then he raises and I'm like oh shit, but as I said before if he has a big pair why wouldn't he vb the flop?

just trying to retional the situation a bit.
the SB 3bets PF, and c/c the dry low flop. what range have you assigned him here?

i recon, AQs+, AKo, TT+.


and when he c/s the turn, whats his range here? given the 3bet PF, c/c range above, i really like checking turn for pot control.

but i get TT+.

as played, defo a fold. if he's got JJ, good on him. but we're rarely good here, as we only beat 1 hand really. i doubt he's playing AK this way. that would be truely messed up.

When SB checks I put him on AK/AQ or other broadway combos because if I think he has s large pair he'd value bet here.

Don't think he has many other broadway combos, if any. He could check AA and KK on this board, its very likely that somebody bets this, if not it's fair to assume that he wouldn't be called if he had bet (i hope this sentence makes sense, my english is not the best ). With QQ,TT and JJ its also possible, but this would be more of a bluffcatching thing, don't think thats all that likely. AK is totally possible, AQ possible but unlikely (we hold QQ and many ppl don't 3bet this pre, at least not AQo).

i doubt he's playing AK this way. that would be truely messed up.

i think its possible. but it doesn't matter its just one combo.

I fold this! Because i think the only possibilities are TT, KK, AA and AhKh here. JJ and QQ i would expect him to just call here (because of K8s hand).

Why are you flatting pre flop?

Are you slowplaying or concerned about getting it in pre with QQ versus UTG and 3 bet??

My guess is the latter. I would just get it in here, but you could 4 bet fold it, if both UTG and SB play back. Over long experience I have found that flatting with QQ_JJ just costs me a lot of money.

Final result its just a cooler - you are probably behind on the turn, Your reads are that you dont expect him to over playing a TPGK type hand which is all you beat, however, you don't know if hes capable of making big bluffs and how he plays a monster hand. In this spot you could have bet less on flop and the turn, and given yourself the chance to make a big fold. I personally do not think you should beat yourself up about making a call here - you don't need to be right that often.

If he tries to handread at all (and does not think that you are a fish), than your range here looks very strong - JJ+, AK. You could easily play AA this way to avoid cold-4b with these positions.

I think baluga theorem applies here pretty nicely.

As played = Fold.

Agree with betting less on the turn, maybe even checking back.

Why are you flatting pre flop?

Are you slowplaying or concerned about getting it in pre with QQ versus UTG and 3 bet??

My guess is the latter. I would just get it in here, but you could 4 bet fold it, if both UTG and SB play back. Over long experience I have found that flatting with QQ_JJ just costs me a lot of money.

Final result its just a cooler - you are probably behind on the turn, Your reads are that you dont expect him to over playing a TPGK type hand which is all you beat, however, you don't know if hes capable of making big bluffs and how he plays a monster hand. In this spot you could have bet less on flop and the turn, and given yourself the chance to make a big fold. I personally do not think you should beat yourself up about making a call here - you don't need to be right that often.

I think 4betting also costs a lot of money. Ranges are just too tight on average imo. If i had information that told me otherwise i would consider it.

What ranges do you assign to UTG and SB?

You are well behind a strong range here even if he is semi-bluffing AhKh. Do you have any 3b stats/notes on him?
I think checking behind on the turn is sensible.
Preflop is tough. Flatting does turn your hand pretty face up, but if you 4b and he shoves you have to fold.

How would people play it if you were the SB with AA/KK?

im cbetting the flop 100%. as if you have an over pair TT+, your calling almost always.

How would people play it if you were the SB with AA/KK?

Preflop the same, just a little larger 3b, postflop: Bet/bet/shove.

Which is why I think his range should if he's remotely competent he shouldn't really have AA/KK here. But then if he was competent he wouldn't spew here either.

Which is why I think his range should if he's remotely competent he shouldn't really have AA/KK here. But then if he was competent he wouldn't spew here either.

For some reason people love to x/r overpairs on the turn in 3b pots at these stakes. That's why I'm folding here.

What would all of you guys do on the turn if you had KK??? Is it a call or a fold now? From memory Baluga theorum refers to TPTK not overpairs.

What would all of you guys do on the turn if you had KK??? Is it a call or a fold now? From memory Baluga theorum refers to TPTK not overpairs.

It refers to one pair hands facing turn raise. But it probably applies to single raised pots better.
I think having KK here changes a lot as we expect him to have overpair here a lot so having KK greatly reduces the number of KK that he can have that beat you, increasing the number of QQ he can have that you beat at the same time. Plus you have more equity versus AKhh. Combined it makes huge diffference.

It refers to one pair hands facing turn raise. But it probably applies to single raised pots better.
I think having KK here changes a lot as we expect him to have overpair here a lot so having KK greatly reduces the number of KK that he can have that beat you, increasing the number of QQ he can have that you beat at the same time. Plus you have more equity versus AKhh. Combined it makes huge diffference.

There is not a big difference between top pair and overpair on boards like this. The only difference is made when we are against AT/JJ which is very unlikely given the action.

Urb made some very good points about KK compared to QQ in this spot.