Micro Stakes Online NL Poker Forums

MP: $9.72 - VPIP: 37, PFR: 7, 3B: 0, AF: 1.3, Hands: 103
Hero (CO): $30.21 - VPIP: 24, PFR: 20, 3B: 9, AF: 3.3, Hands: 251939
BTN: $25.00 - VPIP: 25, PFR: 16, 3B: 4, AF: 2.4, Hands: 492
SB: $112.25 - VPIP: 44, PFR: 16, 3B: 11, AF: 2.6, Hands: 178
BB: $24.30 - VPIP: 12, PFR: 9, 3B: 3, AF: 3.0, Hands: 90
UTG: $49.57 - VPIP: 24, PFR: 21, 3B: 10, AF: 4.3, Hands: 733

villain 25/21 reg
utg open 22% pretty loose
cbet 74% turn barrel 58% 3bet flop 17%
have some reads on him but they are not relevant for that hand like saw him doing spewy actions calling 3bets too light with bad hands, but lately he has been playing ok

he knows that i am very aggro i normally have high 3bet and high raise cbet

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is CO with Q Q
UTG raises to $0.75, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.75, 3 folds

Flop: ($1.85) 7 3 T (2 players)
UTG bets $1.50, Hero raises to $4.50, UTG calls $3

Turn: ($10.85) 5 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $6.00, UTG calls $6

River: ($22.85) 8 (2 players)
UTG checks, [color=red]Hero BETS OR CHECKS BACK!


so to show a profit and to shove we need to be good more than 50% on the river..


what ranges do u think are more realistic to have him there?

1) MP2 63.24% 61.76% 1.47% KK+, JJ, 99, QhQs, 8d8s, 8d8c, 8s8c, J9s, 8d7d, 8c7c
MP3 36.76% 35.29% 1.47% QdQc
may be that range more realistic? we can't valuebet we are behind even there are some question mark with 88...

2) MP2 50.00% 48.84% 1.16% KK+, JJ, 99, QhQs, 8d8s, 8d8c, 8s8c, ATs, QTs, J9s, KdTd, JdTd, 8d7d, 8c7c, AsTd, AsTh, AsTc
MP3 50.00% 48.84% 1.16% QdQc

looks like a break even range... he needs to be looser than that for us to show profit...

SO should we be more often checking back there without hyper dynamics going on? flop and turn are very +EV

sorry for the late reaction, but never now then never.

I dont understand your preflop play.
1 you say that he calls 3b too light with bad hands.
2 you say that he know you are verry agro and you have a high 3b %

why in de name of the lord do you flat pre
this is a super standard 3b stack off situation in this case (with your reads)
if you are planning on getting it in on a non A or K high flop, you are better of getting it in pre

imo river looks like a clear check back. IF villain was a super station fish i would jam here expect to get called by all his Tx 99 JJ and maybe 89 or whatever.
he doestn look so stationary so i think jamming here will only get called by better hands

but again, vs this players, with your image and read, 3b this guy preflop with those hands

If he knows you are very aggro + opens loose pre I think I would jam this river - all the draws are busted and I don't expect him to give you much credit. Also, I'd expect him to raise his sets on the flop/turn, he can't have many twopairs.

But, like EUSSI said, if he thinks you're aggro (=weak perceived range) you should valuebet more, that is 3bet this pre.

Regards

How come you didnt 3 bet pre if he knows you 3 bet a lot.

calling 3bets too light with bad hands, but lately he has been playing ok

lately he wasn't spewing ,comparing to week before that's why i called ...thought calling would be more profitable because he is on UTG
also + for calling there is fish behind which might call

i reviewed that hand already, shoving river could be a mistake or slightly +EV at best.. if we had KK or AA it would be way better..with QQ to shove it profitably on the river, we need to have very good dynamics and history

i reviewed that hand already, shoving river could be a mistake or slightly +EV at best.. if we had KK or AA it would be way better..with QQ to shove it profitably on the river, we need to have very good dynamics and history

Why are AA/KK a completely different hand to QQ on the river?

How does having AA or KK make his calling range so much different?

Why are AA/KK a completely different hand to QQ on the river?

How does having AA or KK make his calling range so much different?

Because it adds 2 combinations of QQ to villians range? I cant imagine it having a large enough effect on hero's equity to mention it though.

If you're reluctant to bet the river here maybe you shouldn't raise the flop.

Because it adds 2 combinations of QQ to villians range? I cant imagine it having a large enough effect on hero's equity to mention it though.

Im asking him to think about why QQ and KK/AA are not much of a different hand here.....Not asking him to count hand combos.

lately he wasn't spewing ,comparing to week before that's why i called ...thought calling would be more profitable because he is on UTG
also + for calling there is fish behind which might call

i reviewed that hand already, shoving river could be a mistake or slightly +EV at best.. if we had KK or AA it would be way better..with QQ to shove it profitably on the river, we need to have very good dynamics and history

I don't get the whole I flat my premium hand to hope or keep the fish in the pot theory. I hear it being said by the coaches sometimes too. My thinking is if you try to keep fish in your hands equity goes down 3 way to the flop. What am I missing? Is it just an excuse not to 3 bet and play aggressively? Or is it a standard stratagem when fish have open raised or are yet to act? Please explain. Thanks.

If you three bet a reg, he folds and you win his open raise, if you call to let a fish in, there is that bet in the pot, plus you have a chance to win more post as well. Also can make you more balanced. Probably a lot of the time its better to raise though

If you three bet a reg, he folds and you win his open raise, if you call to let a fish in, there is that bet in the pot, plus you have a chance to win more post as well. Also can make you more balanced. Probably a lot of the time its better to raise though

I just think the fish are fish and will unwittingly come along anyways. I understand flatting because of utg open raise range but dont like turning QQ into a set minning type hand to keep fish in. Unless I am really missing something game theory wise.

Well there is another consideration as to why you would flat QQ in a spot like this (vs some players), which is that their range that doesn't fold is going to beat you. If they are 4 betting JJ+/AK and folding everything else, then basically they fold when you are ahead, and you win their opening bet, but if you keep those hands in, you also win their c bet a lot of the time. So it's not just that their opening range is strong UTG, it's their continuing range when facing a 3bet also that factors in. Also, I think this is a flat for that reason more-so than a flatting- to- keep- the- fish- in strategy. Maybe a 3 bet in this spot is better vs this villain if he calls 3 bets too wide, though.

I just think the fish are fish and will unwittingly come along anyways.

There are players who will call a normal raise with junky hands like 73 suited and stuff, but they aren't cold calling 3 bets with it. Think of what a 65vpip player's calling range is, he probably folds most of his total junk hands rather than cold call a 3bet. Okay the flatting premiums to keep the fish in is more like: You are on the button and the CO opens, and the player in the sb is like 40+vpip so you call w/ AA, the op's hand is kind of different though.

Im asking him to think about why QQ and KK/AA are not much of a different hand here.....Not asking him to count hand combos.

he is UTG so his range is pretty conservative, AA we can happily value bet on the river even without created aggro history/dynamics vs particular opponent, now we beat all these QQ, KK extra 12 combos ...which is huge increase in Equity comparing than if we had QQ

i don't believe that the villain gonna call us here on the river with all Tx possible combos, without aggro dynamics and history he could but only if we were on different positions like CO VS BU , SB V BB ...

so having AA here is lot better on the river