Micro Stakes Online NL Poker Forums

im 8 hands into the table . i have no reads yet. is it best to shove
here like i did or should i make it like 20. I figured if i put in 20 i'm already committed so i might as well shove?

Full Tilt Poker $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 595341
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

Hero (SB): $54.00
BB: $86.55
UTG: $135.30
MP: $50.00
CO: $96.75
BTN: $93.45

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is SB with Q Q
UTG raises to $1.75, MP calls $1.75, CO raises to $5, 1 fold, Hero raises to $54 all in

thanks for your advice in advance

i think both plays are fine, i like jaming though couse people are putting u then on AK and are willing to call u with TT and JJ more often, but i would say that I'm not too happy about this spot couse no reads + utg open + Co squeezing UTG open , also i think 15$ is enough for a cold 4b here or even less

A raise to 20 is bad because you commit yourself and you will have a very awkward stack sizes.
as rule of thumb can be to 4bet to around 25% of your stack. 12,5 or 13 is an OK 4bet size here I think.

I do not like a shove here because it is such a big over bet. I think AK can call at best, maybe sometimes JJ from a loose OP.

shove is a big overbet, but u dont acomplish anything better by 4b smaller, couse it's as strong as shove, noone will 5b shove as bluff or with worse then JJ or AK

I would 4bet to around 14/15 and get it in. If u overshove u lose value from worse hands.

I would make it $12.5, or call.

u serious, what hands call or 5b shove over our 4b, that arent calling when we just jams it

as NL50 its almost the same range couse nobody will put us on light cold 4bet without history

im still pretty confused still about which is the best play. with out reads a shove is better? but lets say the original squeezer squeezes light then a 4 bet is better?

u serious, what hands call or 5b shove over our 4b, that arent calling when we just jams it

as NL50 its almost the same range couse nobody will put us on light cold 4bet without history

if you ever 4bet bluff you can not shove here.
you do not need 4bet 3x because as you mentioned yourself, 4bet as itself is a very strong move.

im still pretty confused still about which is the best play. with out reads a shove is better? but lets say the original squeezer squeezes light then a 4 bet is better?

4beting to around 14 here > then shoving imo.
Calling OOP vrs utg r and co squeeze is bad .

The best way to look at this hand is like this.
WE ARE STACKING OFF HERE 100% OF THE TIME NO MATTER WHAT ...so which play will get the most value from weaker hands.
The no brainer answer to this question is to 4bet smaller as cold 4bet shoving will generate too much fold equity to get called by worse hands.(this ofc is player dependant, but readless we must have a default .And our default here must be to assume a villian will fold a hand like TT/JJ to a cold 4bet shove.

When we 4 bet to 14 or so we get our two villians to make some tough decisions with hands like TT/JJ/AQ/AK .
It still looks strong (mabey stronger) but the fact is they are still more likley to call then they are to call a shove.

Also by 4beting we have more of a chance to create more dead money in the pot.
i.e. If we shove and UTG calls us .. well now CO is never calling with a hand like JJ/AQ which we crush.
When we 4bet smaller and UTG calls ,Co has a much tougher decision with his hand.(this dead money is important as it allows you to play this hand like the nuts in a +ev way) when we dont get this dead money (ie)when we shove, we lose signifficant value from the times we are ahead and we allow villians TT/JJ/AQ the escape and play perfectly.

So in general we make life much tougher on both our villians when we 4bet smaller in this spot.
The key to playing hands like this correctly is to think.
IM STACKING OFF NO MATTER WHAT , so how do I get the most value from the times my hand is best.
It doesnt matter If one of the villians here shows you AA/KK,thats just a cooler, and wont make a differance as long as we know how to get value all the times we have the best hand.

Am I the only one here who is not super thrilled to get this allin pre? Cold 4-bets get a ton of respect at these stakes, so are we really expecting people to just dump their stack in with TT without any history?

Am I the only one here who is not super thrilled to get this allin pre? Cold 4-bets get a ton of respect at these stakes, so are we really expecting people to just dump their stack in with TT without any history?

Wow Lann you really are a nit arnt you =-) ..... we loese to exactly two hands with the possability of dead money in the pot.
Poker is a varience game ...accept it and move on LOL.

Wow Lann you really are a nit arnt you =-) ..... we loese to exactly two hands with the possability of dead money in the pot.
Poker is a varience game ...accept it and move on LOL.

Lol, it's not so much about variance as about not overrepping our hand. Cold 4-betting an UTG open is a very strong play and we might not get action from worse all that often.

So how would you play JJ here in this spot?

thanks poker road ur response was very insightful. one question though what do i do if a ace or king flops? is it just that i have passed the commitment threshold and im committed no matter what?
i definitely agree with you about poker being a game of variance. you just have to make the most good decisions that you can and hope for the best.