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I wanna know when I should be checkraising instead of cbetting, and how to donk bet / checkraise from blinds vs button..

any videos on the theory? general stuff?

cheers,
thesnowflake

I wanna know when I should be checkraising instead of cbetting, and how to donk bet / checkraise from blinds vs button..

any videos on the theory? general stuff?

cheers,
thesnowflake

thesnowflake,

What game are you talking about? This undoubtedly comes up in many videos, but it's very board texture/read dependent - you won't find any individual videos dedicated just to this topic. If you post which game you're most interested in our members can probably provide some other recommendations.

thanks,
Rob

CARDRUNNERS HAS SOME VIDEOS, WITH MATTHEW JANDA, THE GTO GUY.. I LOVE GTO PLAY

EDIT: 6MAX NO LIMIT HOLD EM, DUH

CARDRUNNERS HAS SOME VIDEOS, WITH MATTHEW JANDA, THE GTO GUY.. I LOVE GTO PLAY

EDIT: 6MAX NO LIMIT HOLD EM, DUH

you have a great attitude bro, keep it up.

The only time you ever really want to check/raise as the PFR instead of Cbet as the PFR is when you flop a monster on a board that's perceived to be bad for your range, i.e. flopping a set on 765ssh where you'd check/fold a majority of the time should be check/raised a minority of the time to catch your opponent's off guard.

Edit: Actually, according to my HEM I've done it a lot in SB vs BB confrontations in 6max with a lot of draws just to be annoying vs. players who have really wide pre-flop calling ranges and frequently stab at pots from the BB and I've done it with a lot of draws in 3bet and squeezed pots as well. Basically in places where you expect your opponent's range to be extremely weak and bluff heavy, but because he has position he'll never move in on you or where you can pretty much close the action on him at a reduced SPR.

As far as leading it has a lot to do with your range construction OOP and how your opponent views certain board textures for Cbetting, knowing whether or not your opponent views KT9ssh or 765ssh as good or bad boards for Cbetting is really important.

Personally, I view leading as an adjustment to a depolarized Cbetting range or as an anticipatory counter measure to any flop or turn or river card you expect your opponent to check behind because it's a good card for your perceived range. I also think it's ok as a general line on low, connected and suited board when you can represent a range of sets, 2 pair and draws to prevent the opponent from raising you ruthlessly and where you can bluff with equity vs the opponent's calling range i.e. you have 2 over cards and a back door flush draw with KJss on 762hhs. It's really non-sensical on boards like K22r where you can't really represent anything other than like KJ that's just taking the line for shits and giggles.

I also think it's a really strong line in 3bet pots when you A) call OOP and have an extremely strong perceived range and B) you have a good image and your opponent is capable of hand reading. Altho' I really don't recommend this if you actually have to ask this question, maybe tag the thread and come back to the idea if you make it to like 400nl.

As far as leading it has a lot to do with your range construction OOP and how your opponent views certain board textures for Cbetting, knowing whether or not your opponent views KT9ssh or 765ssh as good or bad boards for Cbetting is really important.

Even nl 10 guys these days know KT9ss is bad board vs blinds flat. Or maybe as a micro guy myself thats the knowledge but it's wrong somehow, ha.

Actually, according to my HEM I've [c/r as PFR] SB vs BB confrontations in 6max with a lot of draws just to be annoying vs. players who have really wide pre-flop calling ranges and frequently stab at pots. Basically in places where you expect your opponent's range to be extremely weak and bluff heavy, but because he has position he'll never move in on you or where you can pretty much close the action on him at a reduced SPR.

How to balance? I'm not always doing ANYTHING with draws.. I feel like c/r as PFR hurts my cbet range so much.. was thinking maybe do it with bottom set type hands for value etc, because they can still call top pair types.. although with only a few value combos like bottom set, it's not much of a range really.

As for donk leading ,kind of hard to find a range to balance here, since I mostly 3bet from the blinds and otherwise have a ton of suited broadways/88/99. Tough to split the range up when it's so narrow already.

Thanks for your reply, wish DC had more theory videos instead of "oh this is a good spot i raise" type stuff.

CARDRUNNERS HAS SOME VIDEOS, WITH MATTHEW JANDA, THE GTO GUY.. I LOVE GTO PLAY

EDIT: 6MAX NO LIMIT HOLD EM, DUH

and it's wrong... Modelling under scenarios that can't possibly be true like someone raising you with ATC is a waste of time.

CARDRUNNERS HAS SOME VIDEOS, WITH MATTHEW JANDA, THE GTO GUY.. I LOVE GTO PLAY

EDIT: 6MAX NO LIMIT HOLD EM, DUH

You might want to read this thread:

http://www.deucescracked.com/forums/34-Small-Stakes-Shorthanded-NL/topics/535961-Balancing-range-on-monoto

Even nl 10 guys these days know KT9ss is bad board vs blinds flat. Or maybe as a micro guy myself thats the knowledge but it's wrong somehow, ha.



How to balance? I'm not always doing ANYTHING with draws.. I feel like c/r as PFR hurts my cbet range so much.. was thinking maybe do it with bottom set type hands for value etc, because they can still call top pair types.. although with only a few value combos like bottom set, it's not much of a range really.

As for donk leading ,kind of hard to find a range to balance here, since I mostly 3bet from the blinds and otherwise have a ton of suited broadways/88/99. Tough to split the range up when it's so narrow already.

Thanks for your reply, wish DC had more theory videos instead of "oh this is a good spot i raise" type stuff.

I think you're overly concerned with balance, and I think you're fundamentally misunderstanding line construction as well. Just because you decide to check/raise a draw in these positions, on this texture it doesn't mean that you've moved one hand out of one line and place it another, it means one hand can be in either line at your discretion and you're the only one who knows the frequency at which you choose to deviate from your mainline (Cbetting). As long as you don't try to check/raise the opponent as the PFR every hand, you can check/raise as the PFR x% of the time and take advantage of your opponent's bet when checked to range containing large amounts of air. The reason you can't make your mainline as PFR check/raise is because the opponent can easily adjust by checking behind vulnerable hands and you're allowing him to realize his equity uncontested.

As far as donking, as I said above, I view donking as either an adjustment to a polarized betting range where you anticipate his check/behind and bet out of turn accordingly or as a line deviation. It can't really be your main strategy to defend yourself OOP because you can't effectively donk a large number of hands in your range, since it should be primarily constructed of sets, 2 pair, a minimum of 8 to 9 out draws (IMO) and air with equitable redraws not containing any Aces (2 overs with a back door flush draw etc.)

The reason I don't think it's "good" to donk with an Ace is that, by my logic, it makes more sense to check Aces in order to A) try and realize their showdown value B) if the opponent checks behind, you can turn top pair/bluff catcher on an Ace, which he might represent as a delayed continuation bet if he is perceived to be a polarized Cbettor in position and C) you can check/raise bluff Ace high and turn top pair in order to value bet the opponent's over pairs (likewise when you check/raise your range, you should plan to bluff the Ace a huge % of the time as the check raiser).

Edit: I take exception to this on boards like KQTr where I'm holding a hand like A5s, that flop hits our range extremely hard and our top pair out and straight out is pretty worthless, so I say donk away.

You should also pretty much never be check/raising or donking with worthless PPs if you can help it. It's not the move is necessarily -EV with worthless PPs, but you'll have enough air in your range that you really only want to use hands that have some chance of turning equity reliably to keep barreling so you don't just get slaughtered by your opponent floating your donk bets.

Bottom set is pretty much my favorite hand in the world to donk bet for value, it just makes the most sense of any other hand.

I don't really agree with the notion that you can't donk because you defend your blinds by 3betting most of the time, that might be true of the SB in really tough mid-stakes games, but you should pretty much always have a calling range in the BB.