Loved it.

The downside of having the holecards shown is that it\'s more difficult to do the \"pause on a decision point and think through the situation yourself and then hear what DeathDonkey thought\" method, but I can of course cover Oink\'s cards and all that.

Though it has to be said that you do such a fine job of reading hands that it\'s almost as if Oink had holecards shown anyhow.

Which brings to me to a quick comment/question I wanted to make. Now, add a dozen of disclaimers in front of this and forgive me for simplifying this too much. But it seems to me that you two are somewhat similar in styles, LAGTAGs or something, but that DeathDonkey is more in the school of thought that emphasizes the ability to make well-timed folds with hand reading. Again, I\'m not saying that Oink can\'t read hands, but I think his general strategy is way more showdown bound. Also I\'m not talking about heroic folds in a gimongous pots, but those folds that are quite similar, but reverse, to very thin valuebets with Ace high etc.

Am I right to make this characterization? And if so, is there any other over-whelming reasons to this difference? Is there a difference to the ranges you both take into later streets or is just that DD just tries not to be that showdown bound?

I want to emphasize that I don\'t think that the difference is huge and I\'m not claiming that DD has clearly a superior strategy because of this. One can make mistakes reading hands and people can behave erratically, which balances this a bit against more showdown bound strategy. So it isn\'t a case of a clear-cut \"read hands better, profit more\" situation, although good hand reading skills do just that. But a bit more subtly than meets the eye, I think.

Okay, I have a real question.

At around 42:00, DD has 99 on the button and opens. SB calls, Oink 3-bets, DD caps and SB calls. Flop comes A63r. SB checks, Oink checks, DD bets. SB calls and Oink elects to just call.

I\'d like to hear the reason as I think this is a mistake.. well, er, an interesting spot at least.

Let\'s say DD has a range of {AJs, AQx+, 99+}. When DD bets the flop and gets called on both places he is not going to bet any of his pocket pairs, right? Maybe KK, but probably not even that.

So the problem with this line is that Oink isn\'t going to get a lot of value from the third player. When turn is checked to DD, he is almost only going to valuebet those hands that have Oink beat or in split, except for perhaps AJs. As a side note, I think Oink\'s check on the turn is close too as I think that DD might call with his stronger pairs and the third player might over-call a bit loosely. And I think Oink could fold to raise from DD if he did donk-bet the turn.

So to check-raise the field on the flop has the benefit that Oink can valuebet against DD\'s pocket pair range (of which he is going to fold some to the check-raise) and more importantly against the third guy who is going to have weak Ace, 6 or even a 3 here most of the time. Of course it sucks if DD happens to have AK here, but I think it\'s out-weighed against having the chance to make clear valuebets in all other cases.

I am blown away!!!!!!

DD, YOU ARE CLEARLY A POKER PHENOM.
I feel very lucky to have stumbled into DC.
please dont go any where....lol

I am guessing that having OINK at the table inspired you
teacher hates when student gets the best of him, kinda thing.
which with OINKS skill level, could easily happen.

most videos, I watch and come back to them after watching all the rest again. This one I am going to study deeply before moving on. I wanna play LAGTAG!

I agree with what jajvirta said about OINK\'s vs your play. You SEEM to make better folds (OINK, who\'s game I love, may be just a bit too SD bound)

How good are you DD?
What are your weaknesses?
What the hell do you work on?

I would love to see a battle of the \"POKER SITES\"...

A super-star event...maybe even on TV....OMG...lol

Stox\'s would probably participate because he could make a video on it..as you could.
Schneid\"s would play...cause he has such a big ego...(just kidding, I think)
Someone...maybe Sheets(he plays some limit) could represent PokerXFactor.

the \"fill in\" line up could be awesome.
Tommy Angelo
Chris Ferguson, Lederer,David B....(or someone from TILT)
Hoss
you get the idea....

or....perhaps this game would just be too tight...
WELL INVITE OINK....lol

Its fun being around greatness....its rare...and appreciated.

(questions will follow)

ChicagoTroy wrote:

jajvirta wrote:

Okay, I have a real question.

At around 42:00, DD has 99 on the button and opens. SB calls, Oink 3-bets, DD caps and SB calls. Flop comes A63r. SB checks, Oink checks, DD bets. SB calls and Oink elects to just call.

I\'d like to hear the reason as I think this is a mistake.. well, er, an interesting spot at least.

Let\'s say DD has a range of {AJs, AQx+, 99+}. When DD bets the flop and gets called on both places he is not going to bet any of his pocket pairs, right? Maybe KK, but probably not even that.

So the problem with this line is that Oink isn\'t going to get a lot of value from the third player. When turn is checked to DD, he is almost only going to valuebet those hands that have Oink beat or in split, except for perhaps AJs. As a side note, I think Oink\'s check on the turn is close too as I think that DD might call with his stronger pairs and the third player might over-call a bit loosely. And I think Oink could fold to raise from DD if he did donk-bet the turn.

So to check-raise the field on the flop has the benefit that Oink can valuebet against DD\'s pocket pair range (of which he is going to fold some to the check-raise) and more importantly against the third guy who is going to have weak Ace, 6 or even a 3 here most of the time. Of course it sucks if DD happens to have AK here, but I think it\'s out-weighed against having the chance to make clear valuebets in all other cases.

Assuming it wasn\'t just a brain fart on Oink\'s part, I think Oink planned his hand like the Josh W technique of attempting to CR the turn, then CR the river if that doesn\'t work (Joe has an excellent description of how this works in his recent 10/20 coaching video).

Unfortunately, the river was a card he figured DD was extremely likely to check through, so he just bet out.

I thought this hand was Oink attempting to mix up his play vs a thinking player. I also think Oink should have raised immediately because of the third player still in the hand. Oink\'s style is so agg that no one, not even DD will ever believe him. It will be interesting to get Oink\'s plan on this hand.
Doesn\'t the ace on the board with 3 players kill the turn action?

Oink wrote:

This whole vid makes me look like a FPS idiot and I can honestly say that it was the last time I am playing DD knowing it is DD.

Heh, you should remember that running bad makes, in general, one look bad too. And I don\'t necessarily mean running in losing pots, but running bad in that your action is maximized the other parts of the villain\'s range. Of course, just running plain bad makes one look bad also. For some reason or another, it just automatically makes us humans think that way even though one might play better in a losing session. I think Stox mentioned this in some video. That people are commenting about his \"bad touch\" on the videos he runs bad even though he feels he\'s played as well as ever.

jajvirta wrote:

Oink wrote:

This whole vid makes me look like a FPS idiot and I can honestly say that it was the last time I am playing DD knowing it is DD.

Heh, you should remember that running bad makes, in general, one look bad too. And I don\'t necessarily mean running in losing pots, but running bad in that your action is maximized the other parts of the villain\'s range. Of course, just running plain bad makes one look bad also. For some reason or another, it just automatically makes us humans think that way even though one might play better in a losing session. I think Stox mentioned this in some video. That people are commenting about his \"bad touch\" on the videos he runs bad even though he feels he\'s played as well as ever.

This is a really good point. I am happy the video came out really well and I always enjoy and appreciate all the compliments (I link Joe and Rob to the threads and taunt them!) but I certainly ran hotter than Oink in this video. I mean its easy to look bad as guy always calling down or chasing and losing when you start with the AK/KQ/KT etc. and get outflopped or outturned by some lucksack defending with 64s, T6o etc. I promise when the flop comes KT3r and I have T6o vs KT I\'m going to look bad too cuz I\'m not making any huge laydowns of 2nd pair to Oink :)

-DeathDonkey

have you guys considered getting 6 members of DC to all sit at a low stakes table and then upload all of the hole cards and make commentary? I know I would definitely be down for a session of 1/2 - 3/6 with you guys even if I expect to get my ass handed to me. I think it might make for a great video, and if nothing else could be a fun table.