It\'s definitely close and a fold is fine. I guess I\'m more optimistic and our implied odds in a 3 way pot roughly cancel out our RIO from possible domination. I think if you can play it well on the turn its slight +EV and if you are always going to pay off a 3 bet and river bet its clear -EV.
No reads or stats or anything?
hand 1 seems fine
hand 2 I don\'t think it\'s a good enough hand to complete because 1) ep pfr 2) oop 3) you don\'t close 4) nothing really but connectedness where domination/mway high card strength are concerns.
What I don\'t know about on these though is maybe you\'re getting a good price to see flop regardless; I may just be looking at the downsides disproportionately.
hand 3 is a little harder because the pot\'s so big and if you don\'t have the best hand at this point you may not be far behind; you\'re getting 9:1 to cc on maybe 3 outs (1 oc, 2 bdsd/bdfd) but that out estimation may be too conservative for what\'s going to be a big pot.
But I\'m wobbly on this one too - raise behind wouldn\'t be unexpected, coldcalling just because the pot\'s getting big where otherwise I\'d be pitching it, don\'t know. At the tbl I\'d probably fold too.
Hand 1: looks good. I think coldcalling that flop would be a big mistake. Lots of action and the flop looks really scary. (BTW utg+1 played it very strange)
Hand 2: Think i would call pf, and pile on the flop. TJ have not as big domination concerns as a hand with A, Q or K in it. But im not sure if these calls are to loose but it\'s probably close decisions
Hand 2: Play it the same. Think the flop fold is easy. You are most likely dominated and the bd draws dosen\'t look very good either. You most likely split with your bdsd and losing to the Qs Ks and As if you hit your bdfd. Maybe you could call if you held the As but im not sure.
In hand 1 I have no idea what anyone has even after the river but I\'m happy to leave it to them on the flop.
Hand 2 I call preflop without a second thought and the same with many worse hands. It\'s a great price and UTG doesn\'t look likely to reraise with those stats. I also fold the flop as I don\'t like drawing to a low-ish pair in a multiway pot even at this great price. Plus if I hit a pair I\'m not in a good position to play the turn well.
The third hand looks like an easy fold and I\'d be glad to be able to get out of it that cheaply.
Let\'s keep it going... thanks for the comments so far guys.
Edit: Added stats.
Theme today: too loose preflop/folding too easy on the flop?
SB is 30/24/3 over a large sample.
BB is 53/26.5/2.4 with just 30 hands
UTG+1 is 65/25/1 with 120 hands, but he has bluffed me when HU.
Limit Holdem Ring game
DC Converter not working for this site yet
Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with T K
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, CO folds, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.
Flop: Q 3 T (12SB, 4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero folds, SB calls, BB calls.
Turn: K (9BB, 3 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG+1 folds, SB calls.
River: 2 (11BB, 2 players)
SB checks, BB bets, SB folds.
Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to BB.
Final pot: 11BB
UTG is 74/20/1.
UTG+1 is 30/23/2 with lots of hands. He is ok.
CO is 40/8/1.3 over a small sample.
Limit Holdem Ring game
Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with T J
UTG calls, UTG+1 raises, CO calls, 2 folds, Hero calls, UTG calls.
Flop: 5 3 3 (8.5SB, 4 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, CO calls, Hero folds, UTG calls.
Turn: 7 (5.75BB, 3 players)
UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, CO calls.
River: K (8.75BB, 3 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, CO checks.
Final pot: 8.75BB
UTG+1 is 30/24/3 over a large sample. He is the SB in hand 1.
CO is 40/11/1.4 over 140 hands
SB is 65/25/1 with 120 hands, but he has bluffed me when HU. He is UTG+1 in hand 1
Limit Holdem Ring game
Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with J A
Hero raises, UTG+1 3-bets, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds, Hero calls.
Flop: 8 2 3 (13SB, 4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, CO raises, SB calls, Hero folds, UTG+1 calls.
Turn: T (9.5BB, 3 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, CO bets, SB calls, UTG+1 folds.
River: 3 (11.5BB, 2 players)
SB checks, CO bets, SB calls.
Final pot: 13.5BB<br><br>Post edited by: iplaylimit, at: 2007/06/06 08:10
all 3 seem standard preflop...
all plays seem standard on the flop...
I didn\'t really see any questionable decisions.
hand 1- given stats on villain, I don\'t mind the raise OTB
facing two cold on flop, w/ the T, no diamond... nothing you can do. I instamuck
hand 2- definitely see a flop out of the bb
vs. a bettor and a caller, domination issues are terrible here on the flop, I tend to fold
two cold on this flop? instamuck...
Post edited by: noob_sauce, at: 2007/06/06 18:41<br><br>Post edited by: noob_sauce, at: 2007/06/06 18:42
HollywoodDB wrote:I play everything the same, except I peel the flop with JT in hand 2.
Could you explain your decision to peel here a little further. assigning each overcard .5 outs, we are receiving 10.5 to 1 on a 3 out draw, with reverse implied odds to boot.
I realize JT is less likely to be dominated than any hand with an A/K/Q, but vs. a bettor and a caller, I could easily see our hand being dominated by KJ/QJ/AJ/AT etc...
thanks for the clarification