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Firing the second barrel?

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grandmofftarkin

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495 posts
Joined 04/2011

Two hands from a live 4/8 game where I fired twice...hand #1 is a made hand while hand #2 is overcards with a straight draw. What considerations do I need to take into account when deciding to fire that second time?

Hand #1--
Preflop: two weak players limp, Hero raises on the button with 9Diamond9Heart, sb folds, bb calls, both limpers call. (8.5 small bets)

Flop: JHeart 8Spade 5Spade everyone checks, Hero bets, bb folds, 1st limper calls, 2nd limper folds. (10.5 small bets)

Turn: ADiamond limper checks, Hero? (5 big bets)

(I had previously watched villian in this hand cold call a raise, then call down with QTo on a AK4A board. My thinking was villian could have any 8x or 5x hand, a spade draw, straight draw, or a Jx. Yes, I think he was passive enough to play a J this way.)

Hand 2--

Pre flop: UTG Hero raises with ADiamond JDiamond, mp calls, sb folds, bb calls. (6 small bets)

Flop: TDiamond 9Heart 8Spade bb checks, Hero bets, mp folds, bb calls. (8 small bets)

Turn: KHeart bb checks, Hero? (4 big bets)

(I have no real read on this guy, but have seen him make some "aggressive" plays--he opened ATo utg and bet bet the AK4A in that hand against the previous villian who had QTo. Was betting/semibluffing correct here hoping he would fold a weaker pair, or to get value from a weaker Ax hand?)

Posted about 3 years ago

BigBadBabar

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4489 posts
Joined 03/2007

first hand is a normal turn value bet. when you say firing the second barrel i think it has a bluff connotation (?)

second hand is pretty close; i could see a bet if he check/calls all kinds of crappy draws

Posted about 3 years ago

SIide

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2405 posts
Joined 12/2008

Agree with BBB.

First hand just plays so much better if you bet the turn & check behind basically every river. You can easily fold to a turn C/R. If you check behind the turn, what are you going to do when he leads basically any river?

Second hand, I think its either a check behind and give up on the river or bet turn & give up on the river. I think my default would be to just check behind on the turn and give up against an unknown.

Posted about 3 years ago

grandmofftarkin

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495 posts
Joined 04/2011

Ya, the title was the best I could come up with--I .

In hand #1 I bet the turn and I planned on checking pretty much every river (and obv folding to a c/r). River was a 3Spade villian checked, I checked, and he showed the ASpade QSpade for the nuts.

This is pretty much my standard line here; I was just double checking. I guess my question was whether there are enough worse hands (8x, 5x, spades, straight draws) to make up for the times I'm getting called by Jx, Ax, and pair+draw hands. Still a little hazy on range contruction while in the heat of the moment, so I'm just running this by you guys.

In hand #2 I bet the turn, villian called, and the river was a 7Diamond. I bet and villian folded. Here I wasn't sure about the turn bet and how to construct villian's range for my equity.

Posted about 3 years ago

grandmofftarkin

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495 posts
Joined 04/2011

Just looking at ProPokerTools, how's this for the range of hands for villian in hand #2?

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation
13,024 trials (Exhaustive)
board: TDiamond9Heart8SpadeKHeart
ADiamond JDiamond 25.05% (3,191 wins, 142 ties)
TA-T7, 9A-96, 8A-85, KQ-K7, 77, 79-75 74.95% (9,691 wins, 142 ties)

I think my default would be to just check behind on the turn and give up against an unknown.



What should I be looking for from villian to deviate from checking behind and giving up?

Posted about 3 years ago

SIide

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2405 posts
Joined 12/2008


What should I be looking for from villian to deviate from checking behind and giving up?



Basically what BBB said, I think. Like if you see him calling 85% of his range preflop in this spot and then peeling a very wide range on flops, our AJ is going to have a more value in general and you can go ahead and bet the turn.

Posted about 3 years ago




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