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TPGK on turn gets raised on river

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Entity

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8666 posts
Joined 11/2006

Live I would generally checkraise this flop. Unlike online play where you get people 3betting with AK high fairly often and doing other sorts of strange things (way more frequent calldowns with Ace high, etc), the chances of a semibluff working live seem somewhat higher. You\'ve got fairly good equity here coupled with good semibluffing potential, so I\'d play my \"standard\" way and checkraise.

Given that you didn\'t, I\'d actually checkraise this turn rather than bet it. He\'ll often put bets in drawing slim where he\'d just fold to a turn bet.

Given how odd your flop and turn play look, I\'m prone to paying off on the river. I think it\'s really close and it\'s definitely a crying call, but with your hand being played so oddly it encourages some raises from worse hands on the river, both as value and as a bluff.

Rob

Posted over 7 years ago

Joe Tall

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Joined 11/2006

You have enough equity to check raise this flop. Tough river spot but it\'s one of those pay off hands unless you know your opponent really well.

Posted over 7 years ago

DeathDonkey

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Joined 11/2006

You make 0.5 big bets more when he folds to this move than when he calls your flop c/r and folds to your turn lead.



Good points Sonny but wanted to nitpick on this point just a bit. While this is true, on the flop we had no idea we were about to spike top pair. Getting the money in on the flop 3 ways with good equity can never be that wrong. Given we nailed a great turn card I think a checkraise on the turn has a lot of merit.

-DeathDonkey

Posted over 7 years ago

DeathDonkey

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5389 posts
Joined 11/2006

I\'d just go ahead and checkraise the flop and lead the turn. You are the BB so you can easily have top pair or something like that. Two overcards are going to be hard pressed to call you down and even against a big pair you have decent equity (favorite against TT, JJ). Since you didn\'t I think the turn bet is fine, but going for a checkraise there could be good to if the guy is likely to bet again with a medium pair or AK.

Wow that river raise was unexpected! It looks to me like he had a monster and was scared of losing the other caller on the turn, or maybe the river helped him and he called you on the turn with A3? He tanked for a long time you say? That\'s so weird. Maybe he has AA/KK/AQ, maybe he was psyching himself up to bluff. I pay this one off but its a crying call. Tough hand.

-DeathDonkey

Posted over 7 years ago

DeathDonkey

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Joined 11/2006

Ryno wrote:

Nobody folds the flop? I would after a bet and a call. The chances I have the best hand are slim and I don\'t know what my outs are, if any.



Ryan did you misread the post? We have two overs and the flush draw.

-DeathDonkey

Posted over 7 years ago

DeathDonkey

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Joined 11/2006

Nice post Sonny. I will just add checkraise semi-bluffing the turn without having hit top pair is an \"advanced\" play in my mind, and one that needs to be used very sparingly or else the user turns into quite a spew. This does seem like a pretty good spot for it.

-DeathDonkey

Posted over 7 years ago

Ryno

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Nobody folds the flop? I would after a bet and a call. The chances I have the best hand are slim and I don\'t know what my outs are, if any.

Posted over 7 years ago

Ryno

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Joined 01/2007

\"Ryan did you misread the post? We have two overs and the flush draw.\"

Yes. Yes I did. Somehow I saw the flop as rainbow even after others talked about the flushdraw. :blink:

Posted over 7 years ago

Blantons

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56 posts
Joined 02/2007

Live 8-16 at Canterbury.

I am in BB with KsQs.

UTG+1 raises (never played with him before), at least one person calls, SB folds, I call.

Flop: 9s 5s 2h
I check, UTG+1 bets, 1 caller, I call.

Turn is Qd.
I bet, UTG+1 calls.

River is 4c.
I bet, UTG+1 tanks for 30 seconds, then raises


I\'d appreciate feedback on all streets.

Posted over 7 years ago

Blantons

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56 posts
Joined 02/2007

I can understand now that having two overcards and the near nut flush draw that a check-raise would have built a nice pot because of my odds.

Apparently, my turn bet caught the guy offguard and he just called. His pause on the river was to think about my hand. He had AA.

Thanks guys. You are truly a great help.

Posted over 7 years ago

SonnyBarger

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13 posts
Joined 02/2007

preflop: looks standard.

Flop: I think there can be a lot of useful debate on how to play this. I normally don\'t like check-raising drawing hands OOP because you commit yourself to bet the turn whether or not your improve. Plus if you get 3-bet (and I think you give an unknown player credit for a real hand if he 3-bets a checkraise)you call, but your hand becomes easier to read on the expensive streets.

Turn: As you played it, i think here is where the checkraise has more power as a semibluff. There\'s no reason to think villain won\'t bet again when you check after the Q comes. You make 0.5 big bets more when he folds to this move than when he calls your flop c/r and folds to your turn lead. Also, pretty much the only hand that reraises you on the turn is a set and you have odds to call to draw out on him.

River: this makes no sense as he played the hand. If he has 99 he potentially let 2 players draw cheap to beat him. His raise looks like AA-99 or a bluff, maybe AQ. Even then, you\'re still ahead 1/3 of the time getting better than 9:1 so you call.

Posted over 7 years ago

SonnyBarger

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DeathDonkey wrote:

You make 0.5 big bets more when he folds to this move than when he calls your flop c/r and folds to your turn lead.



Good points Sonny but wanted to nitpick on this point just a bit. While this is true, on the flop we had no idea we were about to spike top pair. Getting the money in on the flop 3 ways with good equity can never be that wrong. Given we nailed a great turn card I think a checkraise on the turn has a lot of merit.

-DeathDonkey



I don\'t think you\'re nitpicking.

On the first point (sure looks like i said that knowing the turn card). When I said wait to checkraise the turn, I meant on any non-ace turn. The presence of the 3rd player in the pot makes the turn checkraise more possible. If the preflop raiser has AK-AQ and checks the turn, there\'s enough liklihood that the called then bets and your checkraise has the effect of cleaning up your overcard outs.

On the flop equity point, I don\'t disagree.The gating factors are 1) how big is my draw, 2) how many people in the pot, etc.

Of course in retrospect, you were kind in not hammering me for saying I didn\'t like \"checkraising OOP\" since its obviously not possible to checkraise in position.

Posted over 7 years ago




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