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Poker Video: Limit Hold'Em by Joe Tall (Mid Stakes)

Do you call a river raise here Jeremy?

Rob

I assume you mean in the QT hand. I'd think we should fold against the villain in question.

Time Link to 00:21:05

can we make a case for trying to bluff here with the topish end of our folding range because we are accidentally value betting sometimes?

I mean, if we're just going to fold to a bet, we can stab and win a pot we were otherwise going to lose, or we can possibly get value from random undercards which would be pretty neat imo

can we make a case for trying to bluff here with the topish end of our folding range because we are accidentally value betting sometimes?

I mean, if we're just going to fold to a bet, we can stab and win a pot we were otherwise going to lose, or we can possibly get value from random undercards which would be pretty neat imo

I mean we're either value betting or bluffing. I don't think it can be both.

on defending the bb multiway:

Q7 and worse play pretty horribly multiway especially when the raise is coming from UTG. If you're calling Q7, you may as well call Q2. 4-5 way, pair of 7s is pretty weak and you're not really going to outkick Q6 very often.

Your river analogy isn't applicable either because when you call one bet on the river, you can't lose more bets. When you call a weak off suit hand from the bb, there's a very good chance you will lose more bets.

on defending the bb multiway:

Q7 and worse play pretty horribly multiway especially when the raise is coming from UTG. If you're calling Q7, you may as well call Q2. 4-5 way, pair of 7s is pretty weak and you're not really going to outkick Q6 very often.

Your river analogy isn't applicable either because when you call one bet on the river, you can't lose more bets. When you call a weak off suit hand from the bb, there's a very good chance you will lose more bets.

Right I'm not saying it's like an ideal situation but sometimes you're just getting 10:1 and you should play anyway.

Also of course Q7 is better than Q2, especially in a lose passive game like this. So basically I agree that my river analogy isn't perfect, but it's certainly applicable and becomes more and more applicable a. the looser the opener is and b. the better we play postflop relative to our opponents.

Right I'm not saying it's like an ideal situation but sometimes you're just getting 10:1 and you should play anyway.

Also of course Q7 is better than Q2, especially in a lose passive game like this. So basically I agree that my river analogy isn't perfect, but it's certainly applicable and becomes more and more applicable a. the looser the opener is and b. the better we play postflop relative to our opponents.

obv Q2 is worse, but they're closer in value multiway than they would be hu. This is one of those spots where your hand becomes worse at a faster rate than your pot odds increase.

You're also in a situation where you can't leverage your skill much. I think if we play well, it makes our call not as bad, but the opportunities to outplay our opponents given the nature of the pot are limited.

obv Q2 is worse, but they're closer in value multiway than they would be hu. This is one of those spots where your hand becomes worse at a faster rate than your pot odds increase.

You're also in a situation where you can't leverage your skill much. I think if we play well, it makes our call not as bad, but the oppurtunities to outplay our opponents given the nature of the pot are limited.

When people say "outplay" they usually mean winning pots you usually wouldn't win. When I think about "outplaying" our opponents in this particular spot, it's putting in the appropriate amount of action when we flop a marginal hand, which given the nature of our hand, will be most of the time we continue.

My point about a skill advantage is that we'll get a lot of chances to play better than our opponents on a Q2Jr board and less of a chance on a 239r board.

Your point about our hand becoming worse as our pot odds increase in this game can't be right. Think about it this way: someone loosish opens utg. His range dominates our hand even though he's pretty loose. We should fold. Now a loose passive enters the pot. His range is like any connected any suited and some bigger cards. Our hand just got better. Our hand will get better each time one of these guys enters the pot because we're rarely dominated by their ranges.

well we're certainly not winning many pots we shouldn't win given that it's 5 way. As for putting in the correct amount of action, it's not that easy oop. You're pretty handcuffed.

Adding players to the pot does hurt your equity quite a bit. There are diminishing returns though. The 4th player isn't as bad as the 3rd player for example. It's not a matter of domination though, it's a matter of each additional hand cutting into our equity and making it less likely that a pair of queens will win the pot.

well we're certainly not winning many pots we shouldn't win given that it's 5 way. As for putting in the correct amount of action, it's not that easy oop. You're pretty handcuffed.

Adding players to the pot does hurt your equity quite a bit. There are diminishing returns though. The 4th player isn't as bad as the 3rd player for example. It's not a matter of domination though, it's a matter of each additional hand cutting into our equity and making it less likely that a pair of queens will win the pot.

I mean your argument is kinda silly. Of course more people in the pot makes it less likely we win the pot, that's true of any hand, but they are weak players and will frequently be calling/raising/folding when they should be doing something else, and that's good for us.

Of course with this particular hand we'd rather be getting 10:1 with two others in the pot, but that doesn't happen, does it? I'd still rather play it in a 5 way raised pot than if UTG opens and it folds to us in the big blind.

Your first paragraph is dead on. It is difficult. That's why a skill edge is vital.

While it is true of any hand, it's quite a bit worse for offsuit hands

While it is true of any hand, it's quite a bit worse for offsuit hands

What about AKo?

What about AKo?

especially AKo

especially AKo

What about AAo?

What about AAo?

what about it?

Time Link to 00:18:53

Is check-raising this board texture with a PFR raiser betting and a SB cold caller coming along really an option? Why? and how would you play the rest of the hand out?