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An interesting pre-flop/flop situation

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Joe Tall

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That post is big enough to call the flop on your runner runner straight odds alone, regardless of an Ace.

Posted over 7 years ago

Joe Tall

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6695 posts
Joined 11/2006

*TT* wrote:

Joe Tall wrote:
That post is big enough to call the flop on your runner runner straight odds alone, regardless of an Ace.



should I even bother seeing the flop after its 4 bet, knowing my rather precise read on the two players, and knowing its going to cost me 1.5BB on average since I\'ll be pot committed to see the turn?

As the hand played out all I could think was that Tommy Angelo would have folded this hand, regardless of his image.


TTGrinry:



Did you look left when you called the 1-bet?

Posted over 7 years ago

DeathDonkey

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I think given your reads you played it well and can\'t really do anything else.

-DeathDonkey

Posted over 7 years ago

*TT*

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576 posts
Joined 01/2007

Live 15/30 game, my play choices are highly read dependent. The player to my right plays 100% of all his hands pre-flop, and never re-raises with real hands but has gotten funky before. Player to my left seems like a typical local pro, kinda weak tight at times, goes too far with his pre-flop premium cards, and is capable of a 3-bet if he thinks I am making a pressure play to isolate the guy to my right.

Prior to this hand I have been on a serious streak isolating the weak guy to my right and winning a ton of pots by going to the flop heads up, its likely the player to my left sees this. Over the last 10 hands I\'ve probably played 65-70% of these heads up with the player to my right by isolating him every time.

Guy to my right open limps in middle position, I raise with AsQd, I\'m insta-3bet by the guy to my left, folds around to the limper who makes it 4 bets, I call expecting it to be capped by KK or QQ by the guy to my left (I\'m not so sure he would cap with AA and doubt he would with AK or AQ) - of course he caps and I call saying \"I\'ve got to call, I probably have the best hand\". Just short of 17SB to the flop

Flop is TD6s2c. Checks to the capper who bets, limper calls, and I call planning to spike an A or I\'m folding the turn.

My thought process: even though I\'m likely crushed with a reverse implied odds hand, I feel I need to give action to continue to get action - I\'m calling to maintain my image (and its rather expensive since it will cost me an average of 1.5BB since I will often see the turn). Normally in the same situation I fold pre-flop once it goes 4 bets, and I\'m relatively sure the player on my left will make it 5. I\'m calling the flop because the player on my right has precisely 2 cards, and the player on my left may not hold an A.

comments?<br><br>Post edited by: *TT*, at: 2007/03/06 21:30

Posted over 7 years ago

*TT*

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576 posts
Joined 01/2007

Joe Tall wrote:

That post is big enough to call the flop on your runner runner straight odds alone, regardless of an Ace.



should I even bother seeing the flop after its 4 bet, knowing my rather precise read on the two players, and knowing its going to cost me 1.5BB on average since I\'ll be pot committed to see the turn?

As the hand played out all I could think was that Tommy Angelo would have folded this hand, regardless of his image.


TTGrinry:

Posted over 7 years ago

*TT*

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576 posts
Joined 01/2007

Joe Tall wrote:

*TT* wrote:
Joe Tall wrote:
That post is big enough to call the flop on your runner runner straight odds alone, regardless of an Ace.



should I even bother seeing the flop after its 4 bet, knowing my rather precise read on the two players, and knowing its going to cost me 1.5BB on average since I\'ll be pot committed to see the turn?

As the hand played out all I could think was that Tommy Angelo would have folded this hand, regardless of his image.


TTGrinry:



Did you look left when you called the 1-bet?



I was looking at him as I said I probably have the best hand (I thought it might represent AK to him). Thats partially why I was able to feel comfortable about calling the flop (if that makes any sense) knowing I had a 3 outer to top pair and a redraw.

net result: I suck at redraws and catching top pair so I folded the turn. I nailed the player on the lefts range - he had KK. Player on the right had 67s - slightly better than 2 cards :blink:

TTGrinry:<br><br>Post edited by: *TT*, at: 2007/03/07 18:44

Posted over 7 years ago

SonnyBarger

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Joined 02/2007

*TT* wrote:

Joe Tall wrote:
That post is big enough to call the flop on your runner runner straight odds alone, regardless of an Ace.



should I even bother seeing the flop after its 4 bet, knowing my rather precise read on the two players, and knowing its going to cost me 1.5BB on average since I\'ll be pot committed to see the turn?

As the hand played out all I could think was that Tommy Angelo would have folded this hand, regardless of his image.


TTGrinry:



Well, not everybody can be Tommy.Wink

The flop call is fine getting 19:1. The back door draw is worth about 3% and you\'re ahead some non-zero percent of the time so calling is not wrong from an EV perspective.

On the other hand, folding preflop to the 4-bet isn\'t bad either. from a psychological perspective, why not give the player on your left what he wants there? How will that impact his play? Will he expand his 3-bet range? Not an answer, just posing a slightly different question.

Posted over 7 years ago

VinnyTestaverde

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81 posts
Joined 03/2007

That\'s a lot of words for a simple hand. I hope you turn-rivered broadway.

Vinny.

Posted over 7 years ago

VinnyTestaverde

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What\'s so precise about your read that you can fold?

The player to my right plays 100% of all his hands pre-flop, and never re-raises with real hands but has gotten funky before.



So he could have anything.

Player to my left seems like a typical local pro, kinda weak tight at times, goes too far with his pre-flop premium cards, and is capable of a 3-bet if he thinks I am making a pressure play to isolate the guy to my right.

Prior to this hand I have been on a serious streak isolating the weak guy to my right and winning a ton of pots by going to the flop heads up, its likely the player to my left sees this.



And his range is very wide.

I have no idea why you\'re convinced that folding pre-flop or on the flop is a good play. Hell, ZI think your queens are good often enough to give myself 1-1.5 of those as outs as well.

Posted over 7 years ago




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