Beginner Limit Hold'em Poker Forums

Full Tilt Poker $1/$2 Limit Hold'em - 8 players - View hand 600944
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is UTG with K J
Hero raises, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 2 folds, BTN 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero calls, MP1 calls

Flop: (10.5 SB) T 6 3 (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, BTN bets, Hero calls, MP1 calls

Turn: (6.75 BB) K (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, BTN bets, Hero raises, MP1 folds, BTN calls

River: (10.75 BB) 2 (2 players)
[color=red]Hero ?

Hey guys I've been watching lots of the vids on LHE here and would be interested in your thoughts on this hand. This hand isn't terribly exciting but I feel like it's a frequent type situation that I'm confused about and consequently some other people are probably also be unclear about the best line here. So here it is.

Reads: Button stats are 17/12/7.0 (vpip/pfr/3bet), AF 1.6, 51/47 WTSD/W$SD. A regular grinder at this game, a bit nitty/weak/passive and plays fairly straightforwardly not too creative or fancy. I checked my DB and I was up 50BB on him over our 1800 hands.

MP is 17/12/6.6, AF 3.1, 19/71 WTSD/W$SD (wow) over 597 hands. Don't have a read on him besides those stats.

Here are my thoughts on the hand. Preflop KJo I'm raising UTG 8-handed often depending on table conditions. If there are some decent LAGy players behind who will frequently punish me with 3bets I might fold this more often, but this table is pretty tight PF and also the BB seems bad so I wouldn't hate playing HU in position with him. Is this reasonable? I'm sure I'm still making preflop mistakes but not sure if this is one.

Flop. I'm getting 11.5 to 1, sure my 6 outs are probably tainted but I still have correct price with a discounted 3.5ish outs not counting implied odds. Perhaps even 3.5ish outs is optimistic against these 2 players. Anyone think this peel is too loose?

Turn. I hit my K and I guess my default line here is probably to C/R the button but not sure if it's correct. If MP donks and button raises I think I can let my hand go. I didn't notice MPs crazy nitty showdown stats at the time since I was 5-tabling but that would make folding to a donk/raise easier. If MP donks and button calls that may be a fold as well but closer. I figure by C/R the button I can force out MP easier and increase my equity. Is this correct or would I rather C/C and let MP peel turn with something like AQ? If it checks through, I'm betting out all non-A rivers. When button calls my C/R I don't like my hand much anymore because I'm pretty sure I remember him frequently folding when I C/R the turn. He's definitely 3betting KK and almost definitely 3betting TT so I'm putting him on a better K often i.e. AK or KQ maybe sometimes on QQ JJ although honestly I think this player may even fold with that.

River. Given my read on button, in retrospect I think a C/C line is probably best at this point, although at the time I bet out the river. Are you calling a raise? Do you think C/C is best here?

It would seem like this is a bad open, but tbh I haven't played full ring poker in four years, but the river isn't really a fr spot and it seems like a bad spot for c/c given your read.

I haven't played full ring online in years, but I'll give this a go.

IMO the only questionable play is preflop. KJo to me seems a bit too loose of an open UTG 8 handed.

Flop is a peel given the fact you are getting 11.5-1. I know you aren't closing the action but the odds are too big.

Turn checkraise for value is good.

River is an easy bet. You do get value from QQ and JJ, which he most likely checks behind if you check. If he has a better king a bet is going in regardless. I honestly don't see a checkraise happening on this river, but if it did, I guess I just call getting nearly 13-1 out of sheer confusion.

Considerator:

I'm also in the camp that says fold this pre-flop.

I do play some full ring at these stakes and find that hands like KJo are just too tough to play well UTG 8-handed. Strangely, I probably auto-raise KQo and KJs, but muck KJo (is this range correct?).

When I am at a table where I expect most pots to be > 3 handed and therefore for there to be a higher percentage of large pots contested until showdown, I only like to open raise hands in early position that have strong implied odds against cold-calling ranges.I think there are too any times that we'll get cold-called by ranges that include hands as maybe as good as KQo that will have position on us post-flop and that we won't always have an equity advantage over. I guess if I felt like the game was playing super tight and I had a strong TAG image I might raise this, or I might just fold and find a better game.

But if the conditions felt right and I did open this UTG I think I would play this just as you did and bet the river for value.

I'd be happy to hear some criticisms of thoughts here.

Patrick