Beginner Limit Hold'em Poker Forums

UTG first raiser is 27/22, I'd only been at the table 2 hands so no reads on him.

CO is 59/30.

Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 1844125
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Pre Flop: (1.4 SB) Hero is SB with T T
UTG raises, CO calls, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, UTG calls, CO calls

Flop: (10 SB) Q 7 6 (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, CO calls, Hero folds

Is this a really bad fold? When he raises me on the flop and the CO calls I thought one of them must have me beat.

I felt like calling but then I thought, if I don't hit a 10 on the turn then what am I going to do if he bets?

It sucks being OOP.

Imo you cannot fold here. You are getting 15:1 which isn't too far off the direct odds you need to draw to the ten, add to that the fair possibility that you have the best hand and you can see folding just not being an option. You also have good relative position on the raiser so if you check turn and it goes bet, raise then you can easily fold.
The interesting part is what we do on various turns I think. Possibly fold all spades except the T, c/r the tens and call down all blanks on turn and river except maybe folding if the action goes bet, call on the river as I don't know that people at these stakes generally fire the last barrel on the river into 2 players.

As soon as I folded I pretty much wanted my hand back. I knew I should have called the small bet getting such good odds. Even just to try and get a 2 outer.

The problem is that I've been in that situation so many times before with a pocket pair and an opponent shows aggression with an overcard on board. I've called down before and many times they usually have paired with the overcard so I just didn't want it to be another one of those spots when I call down and he shows a pair of queens and I kick myself for not folding.

If the CO had folded to the UTGs Raise on the flop then I probably would have called down. But with 1 person showing agression and another not willing to fold I just thought I had to be beat.

Incidentally I would have won the hand. Here's the full hand history.

Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 1844125
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Pre Flop: (1.4 SB) Hero is SB with T T
UTG raises, CO calls, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, UTG calls, CO calls

Flop: (10 SB) Q 7 6 (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, CO calls, Hero folds

Turn: (7.5 BB) 5 (2 players)
UTG bets, CO calls

River: (9.5 BB) 2 (2 players)
UTG checks, CO checks

Final Pot: 9.5 BB
UTG shows 9 9 (a pair of Nines)
CO mucks 8 8
UTG wins 9.18 BB
(Rake: $0.16)

Guess I would have made a bad turn fold. Not sure how much these results show us about the merits of my plan. We do know that UTG can raise for pretty thin value now though so I'd be less willing to fold these kinds of semi-strong made hands to him now. Problem is that we don't know how thin he is raising i.e. does he raise 7x/6x as well. If CO is 59/30 over more than about 20-30 hands then we can start assuming we have him beat a tonne I think, so that is another reason to call down on more turn cards.

Oh yes the CO was pretty bad, I had just sat down so I didn't realize how bad but a few hands later he called me down on an AK75J board with pocket 4s, I had AK.

CO just was not willing to fold any pair no matter how scary the board. If I had known this before the 10,10 hand then I wouldn't have taken much notice to him calling the flop and would have stayed in there with my 10s.

I suppose I'm just annoyed with myself that I folded the best hand but I think you're right chub, maybe the CO could have had a draw so fold any spade and fold any ace or king? Apart from that just call down.

Yeah don't really mind folding A/K at some point. Preflop we must have roughly 99+, AJ+, KQ so on A turns TT starts to be close to the bottom of our range and therefore the part we should think about folding from a GTO perspective. Even though there isn't too much reason for either villain to have A/Kx except in flush draw combos.

careful with being results oriented and having it influence which hands you place emphasis on. as played, on the flop, it's quite rare for both of your opponents to hold made hands that you beat. much more common is that someone holds a flush draw with one or two overs, and/or someone holds a queen.

getting 15:1 on the flop i think it's pretty close actually as to whether to call or fold. i don't mind a call because you can also turn some gutshots as well as your set.

ok maybe I peel a bit too loose in these kinds of spots then and yeah I agree that against 2 decent players we are beat a lot. Being versus 88 and 99 does seem like best case scenario for being results oriented. so it is probably right to proceed more cautiously than I might have suggested, especially vs two decent villains folding turn on more cards than I initially thought

ok maybe I peel a bit too loose in these kinds of spots then and yeah I agree that against 2 decent players we are beat a lot. Being versus 88 and 99 does seem like best case scenario for being results oriented. so it is probably right to proceed more cautiously than I might have suggested, especially vs two decent villains folding turn on more cards than I initially thought

We aren't playing against two decent players though.

Rob

careful with being results oriented and having it influence which hands you place emphasis on. as played, on the flop, it's quite rare for both of your opponents to hold made hands that you beat. much more common is that someone holds a flush draw with one or two overs, and/or someone holds a queen.

getting 15:1 on the flop i think it's pretty close actually as to whether to call or fold. i don't mind a call because you can also turn some gutshots as well as your set.

I'm not ready to pitch on the flop but it's more because there are enough ways that CO can have a draw (good or crappy) and I've got great relative position to calldown easily here. If CO wakes up it's one thing, but the pot is large and while UTG certainly can have me beat with Qx, he's also got a lot of 55, 88, 99 and draws - more than enough for me to see a turn and more likely a turn+river depending on action.

Rob

We aren't playing against two decent players though.

Rob

yeah I was more meaning supposing the CO was a 30/20 type I would be a bit tighter here. Thanks for making me clarify that

I don't fold this flop. Aggressive UTG's can show up with 6x+, sometimes any pair in this spot. I've also seem CO's call with almost any two cards on these types of flops facing 2 cold.