Beginner Limit Hold'em Poker Forums

40/80 Live not playing much different from a full 3/6 online game. No, I\'m not kidding, build those bankrolls boys.

One very passive calling station, limps in EP, I raise KT on the button, the SB is a spaz when he is running good but he\'s running bad (mostly because he plays bad) and he turns into a calling station calls. The BB who is a small winner, semi-taggish, older gentleman who makes solid value bets on the river vs the typical opponents calls in the BB.

Flop: T98

SB checks, BB bets, EP calling station calls, your action....

Post edited by: Joe Tall, at: 2007/06/01 20:27<br><br>Post edited by: Joe Tall, at: 2007/06/01 20:28

Great responses so far, I am going to let this go a little more before I continue. Good explanations for your reasons, keep them coming.

Great discussion so far guys!!! Keep it up! I\'ll continue with the action and then add all my thoughts and analysis after the hand.

Flop: T98

SB checks, BB bets, EP calling station calls, I call, SB folds.

Turn: 8 (3.5BBs)

BB bets, EP calls, Your action....<br><br>Post edited by: Joe Tall, at: 2007/06/03 11:36

Xwind,

the SB folded the flop, look back at my reply

I did some stove analysis to help my point.

The flop better is hand0 the caller hand1, obv I\'m hand2:


Flop equities:
Board: Td 9d 8h

Hand 0: 38.915% { 88-77, AJs-A9s, KJs-K9s, Q8s+, J8s+, T7s+, 98s, 87s, 76s, AJo-A9o, KJo-K9o, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o }

Hand 1: 30.918% { JJ-22, AQs-A2s, K7s+, Q8s+, J8s+, T8s+, 98s, 87s, 76s, AJo-A6o, K7o+, Q7o+, J7o+, T8o+, 98o, 87o }

Hand 2: 30.167% { KhTs }

Turn equites:
Board: Td 9d 8h 8s

Hand 0: 32.590% { 88-77, AJs-A9s, KJs-K9s, Q8s+, J8s+, T7s+, 98s, 87s, 76s, AJo-A9o, KJo-K9o, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o }

Hand 1: 33.236% { JJ-22, AQs-A2s, K7s+, Q8s+, J8s+, T8s+, 98s, 87s, 76s, AJo-A6o, K7o+, Q7o+, J7o+, T8o+, 98o, 87o }

Hand 2: 34.173% { KhTs }

I called the flop and my plan was to raise the turn on all non-straight/flush cards when my equity likely leveled off as there were just to many cards to come off to kill my hand. I can easily fold to a 3-bet as the BB would never 3-bet without a real hand here as the call station protects the bluff opportunity. (yes, this player was bad enough to call 2 with nearly any pair, gutter, etc, and the BB was aware of this and well aware that I knew this.)

I raised, they both called.

The river was A

They checked to me and I placed a thin value bet. The BB folded and the call station thought for a while and called w/A9o, and MHING.:sick:

Ricks wrote:

I think that you should call. A raise will not do much to protect your hand and you do not have any equity advantage against their ranges unless their ranges are huge. Even then your equity advantage would be marginal. If their ranges are huge, a safe card on the turn would improve your equity quite a bit.

You nailed it Rick, nh and for all the rest who answered in such fashion, good job.

The key to this hand is to take a good look at the flop texture and consider the range of hands for your opponent, the possible outcomes of the turn card and how it effects your equity.

Sweenz wrote:

Raise it up and do not put another dime into the pot unless you improve on the river.

I disagree with this as I do with most free showdown raises. Call/call or raise and value bet the river are the choices IMO.

-DeathDonkey

Joe doesn\'t have enough responses in this thread so I will add my 2 cents. Call the flop. Those of you who are thinking turn must need to consider the size of the pot, its already correct with anyone with a gutshot or OESD to call, and the hand is also riddled with 2-pair range hands who may improve or may already be there. The bet comes from the hero\'s right and there is a caller in between, you cannot protect your hand so it\'s best to call, and wait for the turn to decide your course of action. Of course he is raising a blank turn, your hand will look like QJ to your opponents.

Sweenz wrote:

Raise it up and do not put another dime into the pot unless you improve on the river.

It would be a lot more effective if you didn\'t try for the free showdown.

I think I raise the flop. We likely have the best hand. Anybody drawing should have to pay.

...or is it better to call and raise a safe turn card?

I\'ll stick with raise the flop.

*TT* wrote:

you cannot protect your hand so it\'s best to call, and wait for the turn to decide your course of action.

I agree, you clearly cannot protect your hand, but isn\'t there a little value in raising what might be the best hand? Wouldn\'t BB CR a strong hand here? I think he bets out with something like JT. Also, couldn\'t we knock SB out? And won\'t we gain a little more info if BB 3 bets the flop? I don\'t know...I suck at poker..

I would just call, this is probably weak tight but I would want to wait and see what the turn card is before I raise. Although you could easily have the best hand at the moment there are so many cards that can come on the turn which can hurt you I would want to wait and see what card is dealt.

I think I would raise this turn, by raising you are forcing the SB to call two cold and also charging the other two players if they are chasing draws or have weaker made hands. I also think you can safely fold to a three bet because your opponents are going to assume you have a bigger hand than top pair in this situation so if you are three bet they have probably got a straight or full house.

Raise it up and do not put another dime into the pot unless you improve on the river.

Ok fine I am still raising this turn for value because of the weak player still in the hand.