General Poker Discussion Poker Forums

Only way to access info is to have it on your HUD? You can access every possible state there is from pop ups without having it display on your screen all at the same time. You can choose to only access portion of all stats that you think are useful at any given time.

HUD doesn't necessarily improve your play but saying having a HUD on your screen and not look at it somehow makes you play worse makes no sense. Worse case it doesn't improve your game but can't make it worse unless you're using it wrong.

Never ever said the only way to access info is to have it on your HUD. I said that the HUD info is usually much more accessible than the info derived from showdowns. To get the info from showdowns, you have to see the showdown, retrace the line, think about what the guy was thinking, what it means about the rest of his game, write it down, and so on, and then you have to remember that info next time you are in a relevant spot with him. The HUD info is much more accessible, and so many will rely on the availability heuristic and weight that info more strongly than it should be - this is just an innate cognitive/decision making tendency that all humans have.

I'll also note that I'm not against using a HUD as I obv think some stats are useful. But for some people who are very susceptible to using heuristics, it can definitely improve their game. Even if it's not a permanent thing, going HUDless as a training tool to force one to recognize how much other and better info is out there and to re-train their subconscious (which makes most of our decisions) to use the more important information, is certainly valuable. This is something that I've learned and been forced to do from playing live poker - I was missing a shit ton of much more important information when I was playing online. So even going HUDless for a while and then bringing back the HUD can be awesome. Basically it can be a great way to improve your information gathering and utilization skills.

A few other things that are peeving me about the direction of this discussion:
no one has even mentioned what game we are talking about
no one has mentioned how many tables they play
the format has only been briefly alluded to as 6m

Sorry if I am coming off as crotchety here but I don't like sweeping generalizations being made on little information.

There's a form of poker where you can play worse by having just someone's name on a HUD? You don't need HUD to be good but having one can't possibly be worse than without one.

To all those people who says otherwise, if the site you play on gives you 1% more rakeback when you use a HUD who would choose not to use it? HUD can display as little info as you want, including just the person's name.

i cant imagine being at a live table of any kind of poker game, and if someone said 'hey i'll tell you that guys long-run vpip, pfr, wtsd etc' i would sure as hell wanna know rather than have him be a random live guy. obv not saying that people can't win hudless, but I can't see a reason to not have important reads just handed to me.

also regarding dwan, ivey etc not using a hud - they play in mostly HU or 3-4 handed games that have a super small player pool. thus they can take notes or just store reads in their heads. most micro-small stakes players are dealing with a player pool of thousands, so using a HUD makes a lot more sense.

also regarding dwan, ivey etc not using a hud - they play in mostly HU or 3-4 handed games that have a super small player pool. thus they can take notes or just store reads in their heads. most micro-small stakes players are dealing with a player pool of thousands, so using a HUD makes a lot more sense.

I don't really understand this. They are playing in a player pool of thousands, so most of their sample sizes will be small, making a HUD actually less useful than in the highstakes games where you get huge samples vs. players, unless of course you are talking about data mining, which I wasn't talking about.

Seeing a few hands at showdown will often be far more useful than a 200 hand sample size of HUD stats, so I think a HUD might actually be worth less at lower stakes than at high stakes.

Confirmation bias. Tiny sample. If you are playing better without a HUD, it means you were using it incorrectly.

This, all 3 points.

I play better if I'm trying to prove I play better without using a HUD.

Not sure. If you are just starting out you might be able to learn it the right way? I started to use it the wrong way, so I needed to figure a way out

Yeah i started using a Hud and playing 6m, like only 2 months ago.In the beginning i WAS using it wrong, then slowly but surely got better and started adjusting the stats and popups to those that i need the most.
What i noticed when i analysed some of the trouble spots, is that i was relying too much on a HUD in some situations, that i needed to take a break and try playing without it for a couple of days.
After i did that one my friends explained some things to me, and it was much clearer.
So i`m glad i took that advice while still in relatively early stages of using it and familiarizing with it.
Now while yet not everythng is crystal clear, i have a much better understanding of its purpose, with still a lot of features that i need to learn how to use and maximise its potential.
I`m all about improving, in any way possible.

thin red line ep1

I guess nobody bothered to realise OP said zoom poker? That's a completly different ball game.

I remember when I still played poker I would rely way to heavy on the hud. For me, every 21/17 was the same, and every 6% 3-bet meant X. I understood that this was not so, but I would still make generalisations. I would hear myself say: "This guy is a 8% 3-better, that's a lot ! I am going to fight back". My reads where mostly based on hud stats. Then, I went a step further, and would look at positional stats, those because my read. I would say: "Yes, he is a 8% 3-bettor, but from what position". I would then look and see that his 3-bet % on the button was high after 20 hands so I would have a reason to 'fight back'.

I think, to tackle this leak, it's very good to drop the hud, for practice. Maybe play a couple of levels lower for some time, or maybe a few times a week. I don't know. Teach yourself to look around, and see what people are doing. I always found it a great tip to focus on one player only, and make as many reads as possible. From there, expand the players you are following. Not sure which coach gave that tip.

I think, looking back. You can't really play without a HUD anymore, since you will have to big of a disadvantage. While you are trying to figure out some player is tag, a lag or a nit.. he just sees 21/18 after 100 hands and can me atleast some assumptions.

I think, the best would be to use the hud as a tool, not to let the hud use you for your own mental justifications for things you want to do. With that, I mean, If you are sick of folding to a 3-bet, it's easy to look at 8% and tell yourself it's time to stand up. Or you might be completely card dead, look at your own stats and see 13/10... and say to yourself... Can't be viewed as a nit, I need some image... and start opening hands you really should not... For me, the hud really used me. It might even have been an emotional trigger at times.

To put things in perspective, even BalugaWhale (for new members, a coach who absolutely hated the hud) started to use a HUD when he started to play a bit lower then he normally was playing. With such a big field of players using a HUD, the hud isn't a advantage anymore, it's a big disadvantage not using one. Becoming really great at using a HUD, that might be a really big advantage. Somebody should make a video on it. I know Alan Jackson from bluefire had some great poker videos about HUDs, but I am sure somebody at DC could do the same or even better.

Greetings.