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I need some words of wisdom. I was playing an 18 man sng with 3 players left. I was the big stack with a medium stack and a super short stack. I was taught to treat every pay jump as a new bubble in these because of the payout structure being linear 4th gets 11.50 3rd gets 23, 2nd gets 34.50 and 1st gets 46. So with the super short stack I would fold my small blind to him in order to keep the 3rd place bubble alive, because the medium stack was folding every blind to me. Here are some hands.
pokerstars Hand #81918620866: Tournament #574194443, $6.45+$0.55 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XI (400/800) - 2012/06/13 18:22:26 ET
Table '574194443 2' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: the_doooze (21241 in chips)
Seat 5: dcagy (822 in chips)
Seat 6: rodbe82 (4937 in chips)
the_doooze: posts the ante 50
dcagy: posts the ante 50
rodbe82: posts the ante 50
the_doooze: posts small blind 400
dcagy: posts big blind 772 and is all-in
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to the_doooze [9h 5d]
rodbe82: folds
the_doooze: folds
Uncalled bet (372) returned to dcagy
dcagy collected 950 from pot
rodbe82 said, "?"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 950 | Rake 0
Seat 1: the_doooze (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: dcagy (big blind) collected (950)
Seat 6: rodbe82 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)


PokerStars Hand #81918639573: Tournament #574194443, $6.45+$0.55 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XI (400/800) - 2012/06/13 18:22:51 ET
Table '574194443 2' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: the_doooze (22591 in chips)
Seat 5: dcagy (822 in chips)
Seat 6: rodbe82 (3587 in chips)
the_doooze: posts the ante 50
dcagy: posts the ante 50
rodbe82: posts the ante 50
the_doooze: posts small blind 400
dcagy: posts big blind 772 and is all-in
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to the_doooze [8h Ah]
rodbe82: folds
the_doooze: folds
Uncalled bet (372) returned to dcagy
dcagy collected 950 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 950 | Rake 0
Seat 1: the_doooze (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: dcagy (big blind) collected (950)
Seat 6: rodbe82 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)



PokerStars Hand #81918663014: Tournament #574194443, $6.45+$0.55 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XI (400/800) - 2012/06/13 18:23:23 ET
Table '574194443 2' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: the_doooze (23941 in chips)
Seat 5: dcagy (822 in chips)
Seat 6: rodbe82 (2237 in chips)
the_doooze: posts the ante 50
dcagy: posts the ante 50
rodbe82: posts the ante 50
the_doooze: posts small blind 400
dcagy: posts big blind 772 and is all-in
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to the_doooze [3s Jd]
rodbe82: folds
the_doooze: folds
Uncalled bet (372) returned to dcagy
dcagy collected 950 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 950 | Rake 0
Seat 1: the_doooze (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: dcagy (big blind) collected (950)
Seat 6: rodbe82 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)



PokerStars Hand #81918674325: Tournament #574194443, $6.45+$0.55 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XI (400/800) - 2012/06/13 18:23:38 ET
Table '574194443 2' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: the_doooze (24791 in chips)
Seat 5: dcagy (872 in chips)
Seat 6: rodbe82 (1337 in chips)
the_doooze: posts the ante 50
dcagy: posts the ante 50
rodbe82: posts the ante 50
rodbe82: posts small blind 400
the_doooze: posts big blind 800
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to the_doooze [2d Jh]
dcagy: raises 22 to 822 and is all-in
rodbe82: folds
the_doooze: folds
Uncalled bet (22) returned to dcagy
dcagy collected 2150 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2150 | Rake 0
Seat 1: the_doooze (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: dcagy (button) collected (2150)
Seat 6: rodbe82 (small blind) folded before Flop

This player was getting really mad saying how he was going to report me. Anyways he did report me and my account was frozen, Im panicking now because I do not want to have my account frozen permanently. Are pokerstars good with these types of situations. They emailed me and asked my thought processes on these hands as well as my relationship with the small stack. (I have no relationship with this player whatsoever). Some words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Seriously? Either you misapplying this concept or i don't know. How can you fold when you have a gigantic stack and the guy has like 1BB as i understand. Also folding when there are 22 chips to call for a 2150 pot is a facepalm.

notsureiftrolling.jpg

Hand 2 makes me think you are colluding.

lol'd, can you explain why you were folding in those situations because I don't understand really?

I know, , he's almost all in in the bb, an extra 22 chips for him, but man, it worked perfectly, I pushed very wide against the med stack and intentionally kept the shorty around. Maybe I was wrong but it worked perfectly. I had ready this a few weeks ago too which stuck with me .http://www.sitandgoplanet.com/sitandgo/sng_bubble/Keep_That_Bubble_Alive.html

This is what was going through my mind. The medium stack is going to wait around for this guy to get knocked out. He was folding every single hand, both of these guys were blinding down. So I'm thinking, if i knock the short stack out, the med stack is gonna get it in with any two. But why do that when i can just keep the short stack around and let the med stack blind down until it was near %100 that I came first. I swear to god, that I have no history or any relations with the shortest stack. I just had a feeling the medium stack was going to blind away if I kept the short stack around so I went with it.

Posting that link to PokerStars should solve the problem though?

I'm think it's better just to call it off and make the pay jump but I can undestand why you played as you played, try to formulate your thought process in a more structured way and that's what you should tell stars, also refer to the site why you played that way.

It's been a long time ago but I remember from sitngogrinders.com that they applied similair concepts on the bubble of sngs..

gl

Also this is an 18 man sng, so the chances of getting heads up with somebody I know is really rare, and why would I collude over $10 and risk my ability to play on stars, Poker is my passion, I have been studying every bit of reading material I can get my hands on and trying to learn as much as i possibly can, I love the game so much, and maybe I got carried away with my plan in this situation and made a "suspicious play" but I honestly thought I could guarantee first place if I did this.

Thanks for the input guys, I'm just a little freaked out

I'm think it's better just to call it off and make the pay jump but I can undestand why you played as you played, try to formulate your thought process in a more structured way and that's what you should tell stars, also refer to the site why you played that way.

It's been a long time ago but I remember from sitngogrinders.com that they applied similair concepts on the bubble of sngs..

gl

Yea I watched van dwellers video, well I'm pretty sure it was him, But he mentioned when playing the 18s you treat every pay jump and as a new bubble because of the structure, and that mixed with what I read about keeping the bubble alive I just thought I would ignore my instincts and try to apply a new concept. This is just unfortunate.

Sheets talks about this on his site as well. It is primarily used on the bubble because ICM forces the middle stack to fold much better hands than ordinarily while there is a super shorty on the table. So you fold to the shorty and extract value out of the middle stacks, artificially extending the bubble. By the time the bubble ends you have a 5 or 6 to 1 chip lead and are able to cruise to first place money. Generally you are pushing any two cards against the middle stacks and prob folding just about everything against shorty. Pretty standard bubble strategy. I can see how it would work for pay jumps also. This is disappointing from stars. Hopefully it will get resolved.

stars will recognise quickly that the 2 accounts have nothing linking them if there isnt and nothing will come of it imo.

Also from the comments above I would say there aren't a lot of sng'ers responding to you because this is not exactly radical theory in the sng world. It is not your responsibility to eliminate the shorties. Your goal is to create the most exploitative situation possible. Note the examples, the_dooze extracts over 3000 chips at an extremely critical point of the tourney. If he had called off to the shorty the max he could have made is 822. You don't owe anyone an easy ride. Middle stack felt he had 2nd place money sewn up and felt, hmmm "exploited' by the_dooze's play. Guess it worked.

Hm, having read all the arguments this seems to be pretty reasonable. Hope you get your account back.

P.S. what you should you do now in theory in middle stack spot? Shove/call bigstack raises much lighter as you know that supershort one is not busting very soon?