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Hmm another important point I forgot: Understanding variance.
But to be honoust, I never really understood it deeply enough to give advice about it.

Great post, there is a lot of interesting stuff in it. Thank you for taking this time to write your post.

I just received my book "The Poker Mindset". Also started to listen again the eightfulpath. Hope this will help and will bring me tools to improve.

I think that you raised a point that I think is important. Poker should be fun every time you play it. At some point last fall, when I was playing a lot, I think that I started to be bored or more frustrated. I am not a pro, I play part time (semi pro?), so I should keep this mind enjoyable. Doing money is very positive, but if it becomes a pain, I don't think the positive will overcome the negatives.

Also, trying to reach all those VIP levels is probably is worse for my game, trying to play X amount of hands or x amount of VPP during the month. I think this is an additionnal pressure to play and in the end, I think that it is probably one of the many reasons that brings me to tilt (play too much or when tired).

Also, yes maybe poker is not for me in the end. At the beginning, this is a fun and challenging game but that can bring a lot of stress as well. I think that before quitting definitely, I think that its worth looking at tools and solutions available and give it a shot.

It is def. worth looking at tools and solutions.
I think there is so much you can do to really work on your mental game.
I would say that quiting is your final option and when that final option is there it wouldn't feel as bad because you did everything you could.

It doesn't make any sense to me to do something that makes you feel bad. In the end, it's about the balance. Nobody likes losing, but if there are more likes that dislikes..the balance is still okay.

Doing money is positive but there are easier ways to make money then with poker. Money should be a side effect of a game you love playing.
If you listen carefully to all the great players in the game they enjoyed poker on a super high level. And still do

If you listen carefully to all the great players in the game they enjoyed poker on a super high level. And still do

This is true and this apply to almost everything we do in life. I mean, I played a lot of sports when I was "younger" (i mean when I was a teen) and I still play today. Few of the guys I was playing with had great talent, but when they reached a elite level, they lacked the passion and dedication to succeed. One other guy I knew was probably a little less talented at the time, but he was working so hard and was so dedicated that he ended up turning pro (played in the NHL).

Yes money is a good incentive to play, but I still love the challenge of the game, I still spend some time each week to listen a couple of vids, discussing hands with friends and analysing my play. So I think its not because I am not in love with the game. But still, if this end up being painful by moment, then finding solutions is the first step. Quitting is definitely the last option, but at some point should be considered by anyone not capable of improving is mental game.

Also, give my example above, not sure somebody here only for the money will suceed anyway.

I think so too. Every time I hitted a downswing I would feel pretty bad about it. I don't have this with anything else in life. Its probably the fact there is money involved and the feeling of making other people rich.

Ofcourse this is wrong 'mindset'. But if it feels that way it feels that way.

I am also the type of person that wants to dedicate to something and not do it halfway. With my education that became more and more important I just realised I could not deal with it in this point of my life. I could do perhaps 30% and was not willing to only do it for the 30%.
This points to what some of my pokerfriends say: Its easier to start and become good at poker when you are 18, then when you are older with already a 'life building up' (think about education, gf etc)

The mental game is very individual but a lot of people can relate So don't feel alone

If you listen carefully to all the great players in the game they enjoyed poker on a super high level. And still do

Though many big names have been actually incredible obsessed about poker until they have made it and just have organized a big portion of their lives around poker and their goals connected with it.
After they have made it, they have looked out for more balance, but before many of the big names have been actually pretty extreme (I read a lot of blogs and listen to lots of podcasts of some of those ppl made...).

Anyways, thx for your post at page 1 which is imo a very good one and gl with your educational goals.^^

Great post SnappieVouz.

I also think its important to recognise the things that set you on tilt. For me I used to be tilted by bad beats, but I guess spending some time studying the game has helped that. Last night I had a full house 10's over 66's and lost my stack to Quad 66's, and I just laughed. However, I still get tilted by some types of loose aggressive players, the ones who never back down, and seem to always get a hand when you play back at them. My discipline is to to avoid these guys rather than set out to avenge their luckbox winning (they are usually just better players). Also, never playing after a couple of drinks or when really tired, and focussing on table selecting better.

Just studying the game and getting better really improves tilt - you are simply less results focused and more skill and decision focused.

Though many big names have been actually incredible obsessed about poker until they have made it and just have organized a big portion of their lives around poker and their goals connected with it.
After they have made it, they have looked out for more balance, but before many of the big names have been actually pretty extreme (I read a lot of blogs and listen to lots of podcasts of some of those ppl made...).

Anyways, thx for your post at page 1 which is imo a very good one and gl with your educational goals.^^

I agree with that first part, but I would like to say that I also said that its very important to work on the right things. Being obsessed is never a good thing, but its better to be obsessed about studying than obsessed about cocaine. You can be obsessed about doing EV cals, or obsessed about the bad beats, the coolers and all the things you can't control.

I agree with that first part, but I would like to say that I also said that its very important to work on the right things. Being obsessed is never a good thing, but its better to be obsessed about studying than obsessed about cocaine. You can be obsessed about doing EV cals, or obsessed about the bad beats, the coolers and all the things you can't control.

yeah yeah sure^^

yeah yeah sure^^

I think it's a very important point to realise.
I wonder where the line between hard work and obsessed is. Where those players really obsessed or where they just working super hard? Obsessed has a very negative tone to me while working hard sounds healthy.

Working hard sounds more balanced. Working hard but not neglecting other things that are also very important. While obsessed, to me, sounds like making an object all there ever is.

I think its also dangerous to listen to the greatest and hear them say 'I was totally obsessed about... [object]'. It might make somebody believe that you need to become obsessed to become really good at something??

Work ethic is really important if you want to get very good at poker. I think many people who are attracted to poker don't really have a great work ethic in general and that doesn't bode well with getting very good at the game. In poker there is a lot of money to be made by being really solid and playing a lot of volume, you don't need to be elite to make a good living off the game, you just need to be better than your opponents.

I think its also dangerous to listen to the greatest and hear them say 'I was totally obsessed about... [object]'. It might make somebody believe that you need to become obsessed to become really good at something??

Honestly I feel like you need to be obsessed to get to the elite level. (When I'm talking elite I'm talking about beating high stakes/nosebleeds.)

So why do you think that?
What, for you, is the difference between hard work and obsessed?

"ob·sess (b-ss, b-)
v. ob·sessed, ob·sess·ing, ob·sess·es
v.tr.
To preoccupy the mind of excessively.
v.intr.
To have the mind excessively preoccupied with a single emotion or topic

Most then probably should let go of big dreams in poker. Be happy with getting to midstakes by just working hard on it but not obsessing. It will get in the way of things that are almost guaranteed more important in the long run. Especially now where getting to 200nl is as hard as it is. Being obsessed about poker during the poker boom does make sense. Being obsessed about poker playing small stakes while putting things as education second in a time where poker gets harder and harder and the fish become less and less is dumb. To me there really isn't much future in poker on itself. Or you want to become the next Doyle brunson

Honestly I feel like you need to be obsessed to get to the elite level. (When I'm talking elite I'm talking about beating high stakes/nosebleeds.)

there's certainly selection bias going on here as well. it's one of those "necessary but not sufficient" things. i don't think mindlessly grinding a million hands a year is enough to get to high stakes. but if you're willing to do this as well as be mindful of what you're doing those million hands, and you don't get unlucky when taking shots, and you work on all the other necessary parts of your game like BRM, there's a greater chance of making it.

but it's no guarantee of success. there's plenty of people who had the work ethic but couldn't break through for a myriad of reasons game-related and not. but at the same time, if you want certainties in life, aim as low as possible and you'll certainly get there.

and any top, elite athlete/leader in any field has a bit of delusion and cockiness that the general population lacks (or has too much "common sense" to believe about themselves). it could even be described as a chip on their shoulder, like they have something to prove. again, this is a necessary but not sufficient component of success. there's plenty of cocky, delusional losers in the world too. but if you don't have this trait, then you don't have a chance in hell at this crazy thing called success (unless you're damn lucky to never have setbacks where "common sense" kicks in).

but seeing as i'm still one of those cocky losers, i could just be full of it.

Anyone had any experiences with this poker hypnotist chap? http://www.poker-hypnosis.co.uk/ Could be helpful but I am naturally sceptical about this sort of thing.

Hi,

Noticed I was getting hits on my website from here so thought I would join in and say hi,

I'm the "hypnotist chap"

There are a number of threads on 2+2 about the Mp3's (psychology forum) and all the testimonials on my site are from 2+2 users.

If anyone has any questions about using hypnosis to improve your mindset let me know.

Good luck at the tables.

Elliot

Hi,

Noticed I was getting hits on my website from here so thought I would join in and say hi,

I'm the "hypnotist chap"

There are a number of threads on 2+2 about the Mp3's (psychology forum) and all the testimonials on my site are from 2+2 users.

If anyone has any questions about using hypnosis to improve your mindset let me know.

Good luck at the tables.

Elliot

Interesting^^

Can you link mb some 2+2-threads?
Furthermore, can you maybe elaborate a bit how you have become a hypnotic mentalcoach and how you have found your way to onlinepoker?
Futhermore, everybody knows that Jared Tendler is a real expert when it comes to mindset-stuff in poker and he has published his qualifications...
What qualifies you to work as a mental coach?

Hi,

Thank you for your interest.

Here's a link to the main 2+2 thread,

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/173/commercial-marketplace/online-poker-mindset-hypnosis-mp3-reduce-tilt-improve-focus-1185625/index2.html#post32960911

Most of the questions are answered on there so I'll just give a quick breakdown here:

I have a Diploma in Hypnotherapy and Psychotherapy (DHP) from the Royal Berkshire College of Clinical Hypnosis (RBCCH). I decided on this course because it was one of the most comprehensive available in the UK.

I am also trained in Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT or Tapping) and have attended courses on utilising CBT (Cognitive behavioural therapy) concepts within hypnosis.


I had had success with golfers on improving their game, a friend of mine works in the Poker industry and explained the effect tilt can have on players so I started researching the subject and working with players, at the back end of last year. The more I worked with players the more confident I was in the effectiveness of Hypnosis on focus and tilt at the table. I produced a live and online poker hypnosis Mp3 and recommend them being used as your pre-game warm up. Hypnosis is a guided meditation that focuses and quiets the mind prior to starting a session.

I am not a high level poker player but I have competed in highly stressful sports at national level (amateur MMA) so I understand the importance of the mental aspect of competition.

So far the Mp3 has received many positive responses including this one from Jonathan Little

"I just figured i'd come here and let everyone know I listened to the mp3 every day before and after the $25,000 WPT main event and I feel like I put in 4 of the best days of poker in my life. I was paying attention well, not tilting, and picking up small tells much better. Thanks Elliot!"

If you have any questions after reading the threads feel free to contact me either on here, 2+2 or through my website.

Kind Regards

Elliot