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## calculating opening ranges

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#### Iwillwinatpoker

12 posts
Joined 03/2012

How do you calculate the aproximatly best opening range in 6max nlhe?

I understand how to calculate ranges vs one player but when openning you are mostly facing multiple players.

And likewice how do you calculate properly for cbetting etc vs multiple players, how do you calculate it? I know that boardtextures and image plays a part and that if I am opening way more than the other players I am going to get kicker owned etc but then it is also about how often they fold to cbets and how often they pay of big with weak hands when I hit something god etc and when there are two oponents or more it gets really tricky to combine everything and come up with the optimum decition.

#### itsatrap

1712 posts
Joined 07/2008

I would love to help but I don't understand the question...

#### PrinzVonHapunkt

1196 posts
Joined 12/2010

he kind of wants to solve the game I think, at least pf opening range-wise

#### zachd2323

2845 posts
Joined 04/2010

This question is way too broad to answer.

#### MI5 Mark

1731 posts
Joined 06/2011

If you really have no idea then download pokerstove, go to the bit where you can move the slider about and increase or decrease ranges. Click around until you get the best ranges for each position thus

UTG - 15%
UTG+1 - 17%
CO - 25%
BU - 35%
SB - not much
BB - take odds and play as appropriate.

This should see you right until you know what you are doing

#### Iwillwinatpoker

12 posts
Joined 03/2012

Hm okey well maybe you can tell me what you factor in when deciding what range of hands you open with in different scenarios?

Mi5 Mark: I have used pokerstove but I don't know how to calculate vs several oponents. seems very complex. Maybe no one does calculate that but then what do you make your judgement on and what makes really skilled player know this better?

I started out with a hands chart and then watched videos and listened to what hands could be good to raise vs different oponents but no one really explained why he choose A10 as his minimum for opening utg to be the best, just that it was standard for micro stakes etc. And when watching videos on laggy agressive play no one explains how they come up with the range they choose to play as the most profitable.
Since it is based on incomplete information there is no way to be exactly acurate but still you make your decitions based on something and I don't think good players just got better at pressing buttons till they eventually crushed the games, I think they learned and calculated somehow with the information and asumptions they had.

But really I have trouble to really understand what ranges are best even vs one player but it is easy to calculate if you asign ranges, but if it is better to 3b a hand or just flat and check raise or flat and call flopp raise turn and then also depending on all variations on flopps that can come up, how do you make the best decitions here.

Seem everytime I try to ask people about this, no one really understands me and I don't understand them. Maybe is cause I am trying to solve the game so as if you could you could write a perfect bot that was unbeatable and no one has done that yet.

Say there are just big really passive fish at the table, then it doesn't really matter what range you raise, you can just valuebet them when you hit a good hand and check when you don't but at a table with lots of reggs and some fish, how do you then come up with the best range of hands to play? what do you base your decition on?

#### Iwillwinatpoker

12 posts
Joined 03/2012

This question is way too broad to answer.

Okey but then how do you know what range of hands to raise when you play, do you just do it on random or use a handchart? if not and you consider you know why you raise what you raise you must be making some calculations

#### snarble5

1685 posts
Joined 07/2010

I think everyone just estimates. Basically if players behind you are too tight, open looser and vice versa. If you have no info on players, you play a standard game (ie. handchart).

#### snarble5

1685 posts
Joined 07/2010

If you did want to figure out what ranges to open mathematically, you should probably start with a heads up example and expand from there. The problem obviously is there are so many different things that can happen postflop that it's hard to calculate, it also depends on who has a skill edge postflop, etc. If all players are equally skilled, you could find out what ranges to open, but it doesn't actually happen at the table so it's kinda useless to do.

My advice: start out with a hand chart, play a tight, solid, ABC game (I am assuming you are starting/playing at the micros), once you get better at hand reading/postflop play then you can loosen up.

#### Iwillwinatpoker

12 posts
Joined 03/2012

I think everyone just estimates. Basically if players behind you are too tight, open looser and vice versa. If you have no info on players, you play a standard game (ie. handchart). If you did want to figure out what ranges to open mathematically, you should probably start with a heads up example and expand from there. The problem obviously is there are so many different things that can happen postflop that it's hard to calculate, it also depends on who has a skill edge postflop, etc. If all players are equally skilled, you could find out what ranges to open, but it doesn't actually happen at the table so it's kinda useless to do.

My advice: start out with a hand chart, play a tight, solid, ABC game (I am assuming you are starting/playing at the micros), once you get better at hand reading/postflop play then you can loosen up.

So what do you think estimations are? I think estimating means calculating with information you have gathered but you aren't calculating exactly, that is why it is an estimation. you don't estimate on someones screenname or the colour of their avatar. You do it based on different statistics you or your hud has picket up on. Just don't know how to do it when you are up against tougher players cause then it starts to matter way more and misstakes will cost you then.
What you say about so many different things that can happen is exactly what I mean, how do you then evaluate what is about as profitable as possible, exact calculations depening on all variables seem impossible but somehow you have to do calculate based on something and the really good players calculate better or cover more things than worse player.
Maybe that is the answer, it's to complex to solve but the one who considers the most things and have a good strategy for thoose things have the biggest advantage.
Like for example. That this hand is good to cbet on theese flopps vs that player and checkraise vs that player and if that player calls and the fish is behind he prolly has this range and if he squesses with the fish behind him he probbably has this range etc but it's still hard to determine for me where to find the aproximate line of what hands to raise proffitably when there are 3 or 4 different players left to act where one or more can call or 3b and float and raise or fold etc, even if I have an idea of their respective ranges for doing different things and I can adjust, somewhere it is not profitable to raise a hand even if I know their ranges and tendensis very well, say I raise top 50% hands in mp I know I would spew vs 4 good player left to act, even if I am one of the most skilled players in the world, so where do I find the aproximate line and the have the biggest advantage.

#### MI5 Mark

1731 posts
Joined 06/2011

You are talking about making adjustments ingame which is really difficult to answer. Basically people have an almost default opening range, the one I mentioned earlier is for unopened pots so when you are first to raise. This would be a good default for someone new like you.

Calling someone elses open is different, here you need to think about their range (so their positional stats) and call/fold/raise as appropriate. This comes from experience and common sense. So I will raise a loose fish with AQo but I might fold AJo vs a nit.

As a rule play a broader range in position than out of it.

Post some specific examples, every scenario is different.

#### Iwillwinatpoker

12 posts
Joined 03/2012

You are talking about making adjustments ingame which is really difficult to answer. Basically people have an almost default opening range, the one I mentioned earlier is for unopened pots so when you are first to raise. This would be a good default for someone new like you.

Calling someone elses open is different, here you need to think about their range (so their positional stats) and call/fold/raise as appropriate. This comes from experience and common sense. So I will raise a loose fish with AQo but I might fold AJo vs a nit.

As a rule play a broader range in position than out of it.

Post some specific examples, every scenario is different.

thnx for your help but I'm not new to poker, I have played for a long time and am a slight winner at small stakes, I just want to understand how to get better cause somewhere the best players don't open using a hand chart or a certain vpip nr or a default range, they make decitions based on different factors and I would like to learn what does factors are that they consider and how they ad the info togheter to a decition.

when calling someone, if you are not closing the action you have more things to consider when calling someones raise then their range, and here is where it gets complex.

I can post an example tomorow, time to sleep now.

#### MI5 Mark

1731 posts
Joined 06/2011

I agree but I bet many either still do have a hand chart or had a hand chart and have almost memorised it.

#### johnnymomo1

311 posts
Joined 12/2008

experience of the situations your asking about is the way most players improve, play lots of hands and test yourself by not playing on autopilot and play max 4 tables or whatever you can follow all hands on

#### Iwillwinatpoker

12 posts
Joined 03/2012

the way no once can tell me what factors they base their decition on and how they add the things togheter to a decitions seems like everyone is just guessing or using a hand chart.
how do you gain something through experience if you don't have a proper way you analyze things to make better decitions and how can you say you do analyze things without being able to explain why.
for me I don't know exactly I have used a hand chart and then I understand that when there are big bad fish I can play more hands that will have an edge vs them and that is enough to be profitable but I don't know exactly how many hands to raise vs several fish and some reg. if all the fish is callin pf and folding extremly much I can raise everything and cbet and be profitable, its not so hard to se. But when there are 4 regg 1 fish and me, it's not as easy any more. how do I learn this?

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