General Poker Discussion Poker Forums

It's not necessarily a leak. It depends on who is doing the 3betting and in what situation.

I think my f3b is at least 70% and I'm probably leaking, but not all of my folds are bad ones. In fact, I recently had one hand where I was forced into calling a 200bb 5bet with KK and hated myself for it, LOL... (forced by pot odds by another player that spazzed out). In other words, if I saw this particular guy 5bet shove 200bbs given the action, my kings were crushed and I knew it.

Not all of those folds are bad. Just depends on who is doing it and what the situation is.

Yeah Tuneman, you did used to fold a lot to 3bets

omg, you were exploiting me weren't you?????? how dare you?

if your gonna come up with a range to call 3 bets oop you would also have to come up with a donk betting and check raising strategy

if your gonna come up with a range to call 3 bets oop you would also have to come up with a donk betting strategy

this is very rarely true

well if its a semi wide range anyway cos u cant play fit or fold if your defending speculative hands

if your gonna come up with a range to call 3 bets oop you would also have to come up with a donk betting and check raising strategy

I have both of these.

omg, you were exploiting me weren't you?????? how dare you?

Not at all.

Assuming at least 100BB deep you can construct ranges. Just make it mainly for value and a few 4bet bluffs. The ranges should change depending on your opeing range, so tighter in EP, means a tighter 4bet/flatting range to a 3bet, while a CO opening range is looser so has a wider flatting/4betting range to a 3bet. Happy to look at any that you construct.

You sholdn't stick to it rigidly but it would be a good start that you could adjust accordingly for the different opponents. So nits only 4bet only for value KK+, others 4bet bluff alot, others 4bet wider value hands like TT

Also you need to play in 3bet pots for practice. You could consider flatting some big hands like KK+ just to practice to see how people play.

Its all about learning not being optimal or the most in a vacuum +EV play

this is very rarely true

If by very rarely true you mean if you're a really good player, you're right. Donk betting is pretty huge in call 3bet pots vs. a lot of players.

Just open shove so they cant 3 bet you

If by very rarely true you mean if you're a really good player, you're right. Donk betting is pretty huge in call 3bet pots vs. a lot of players.

I'm a bit confused by how you expressed this, could you rephrase?

I'm a bit confused by how you expressed this, could you rephrase?

He is just saying that donk betting should be a part of the strategy when calling 3bets OOP.
(Just like it should in single raised pots).

Having a 3 bet calling range is fine, so long as you have a plan postflop beyond flopping the nuts and stacking someone.

If villain isn't 3 betting that much, there is nothing wrong with just folding. If villain is 3 betting you a ton, you basically have 2 options:

If villain 3 bets a polarized range, you should call more. Good hands to call with are Axs, suited broadways, and strong overpairs. Your plan should be to play aggressively postflop - usually raising (or shoving, depending on stacks) over villain's cbet. Axs and suited broadways are good for this, because they flop good equity, and since villain will have a polarized 3 betting range preflop, he'll have a lot of weak hands that he will b/f on the flop, and if villain does have a strong hand we have some outs to a better hand, for example KdQd on a Td9s2c flop. Having strong overpairs (JJ+) in your preflop calling range will strengthen your range postflop.

Against a villain who 3 bets a depolarized range, you should add more 4 bets. If villain 3 bets and then folds a lot, add more bluffs to your range. If villain is willing to stack off light, then add more value hands to your 4 betting range.

Very good post SCS. The problem as I see it is that we need to gather quite a bunch of information to "play back" at 3bets. Figuring out villains is 3betting range is tough to do with the small sample sizes we usually have and all the different playing styles people have at the micros.

I feel like often times we just have to get our feet wet and draw the best conclusions out of the limited information we have (I guess that's poker eh?). But it's pretty tough not to overadjust all of a sudden. I feel like that's what coaches do a lot in videos. You got to start getting involved with someone to gather decent information.
Agree? Disagree?

If villain isn't 3 betting that much, there is nothing wrong with just folding

If villain is 3 betting you a ton, you basically have 2 options:

If villain 3 bets a polarized range, you should call more. Good hands to call with are Axs, suited broadways, and strong overpairs. Your plan should be to play aggressively postflop - usually raising (or shoving, depending on stacks) over villain's cbet. Axs and suited broadways are good for this, because they flop good equity, and since villain will have a polarized 3 betting range preflop, he'll have a lot of weak hands that he will b/f on the flop, and if villain does have a strong hand we have some outs to a better hand, for example KdQd on a Td9s2c flop. Having strong overpairs (JJ+) in your preflop calling range will strengthen your range postflop.

Against a villain who 3 bets a depolarized range, you should add more 4 bets. If villain 3 bets and then folds a lot, add more bluffs to your range. If villain is willing to stack off light, then add more value hands to your 4 betting range.

seems quite clear but i remember blah apex predator who tells to bluffcacth a lot vs a polarized range, so we should call 3 bet
BUT a 3be polarized range is not a CB polarized range so we have to look at his CB range to know ow to react
vs a polarized CB range we bluffactch a lot and raise sometimes guhsots and 3rd pairs
vs a depôlarized CB range we raise a lot with overs, good draws etc...

so it seems our calling range must be caped on top whith good broadways (can be ofsuit) and strong nut pairs KK+..but don"t we have a domination problem vs a polarized range if we call QJs if he 3bets QKs and 56s to be polarized
not sure to be clear
any thoughts?