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I played my first session at $25NL last night. 2500+ hands finished down about $11. Not bad considering where I was at one point in the session. Anyway, afterwards I was looking through my stats and noticed one major issue, my f3bet stat IMO, was waaaaayyyyy too high. Looking back at my time at $4NL and $10NL, it was the same there too. I don't have PT3 here on this computer, so I can't pull up the exact numbers, however, I know that this is a leak of mine that needs to be closed ASAP.

So, my question for everyone is, how do I construct a good 3bet calling range vs various villain types? Does anyone have a 3bet calling range in say the CO vs a BTN 3bet? OOP really seems to give me a tough time lately so any help would be appreciated...even if it's vid suggestions.

Thanks DC!

When you are oop try to 4bet bluff once in a while with hands that have blockers to villains value 5bet range. Calling oop will cost you money since we miss the flop very often and villain will have a freeroll to see a flop with his semi-bluffing hands. I would start targetting villains with a high 3bet from the button and 4bet bluff them with hands like A3s or KQo. See how it goes..

You should not construct 3bet calling range (well at least I would not recommend it) but rather adjust your opening and 4betting range and if someone is 3betting you IP a ton just mark him and change tables, there is plenty of better seats at 25NL. And I would not worry about something like folding too much to 3bets after 2.5k hands play your old game, table select better and don`t worry. It`s only in your head that someone is trying to exploit you or plays way differently when you move up one level.

You should not construct 3bet calling range (well at least I would not recommend it) but rather adjust your opening and 4betting range and if someone is 3betting you IP a ton just mark him and change tables, there is plenty of better seats at 25NL. And I would not worry about something like folding too much to 3bets after 2.5k hands play your old game and don`t worry. It`s only in your head that someone is trying to exploit you or plays waay differently when you move up one level.

I appreciate this and I know you're right to an extent. However, I'm also looking at this as a way to improve my game at the same time. In the future (if I get to where I want to be) I'm going to need to be able to do this right?

I appreciate this and I know you're right to an extent. However, I'm also looking at this as a way to improve my game at the same time. In the future (if I get to where I want to be) I'm going to need to be able to do this right?

Should you start doing that after you just moved up in stakes? My answer would be no, because you have a stressful situation as it is so why add more complexity right now?

Can you play higher stakes and not have a 3bet calling range OOP? I think so.

it is almost always a smaller mistake to fold too much to 3bets then call too many 3bets especially OOP. so dont get paranoid about it

what is your f3b% and why do you think it is way too high? it doesnt have to be a mistake. if people at 4nl and 10nl 3bet only 5% then obviously its not a big leak to fold a whole lot of your steal range.

Throwing in some bluff 4bets depending on dynamic and blockers OOP and calling with hands that dominate decent parts of villains expected 3bet bluff range IP is what I do mostly. And I still end up with a very high fold to 3bet. I don't think that's much of leak though.

The tricky part is figuring out how wide villains 3bet range actually is given small samples that we usually have. Also figuring out if villain is 3betting depolarized aswell, as in how wide villains value 3bet range is.

Don't get me wrong guys, I'm not calling a ton of 3bets...especially OOP, but at the same time, I'm already noticing that preflop aggression is quite a bit higher at $25NL than it was at $10NL so I feel it's time to at least start working on my game to improve.

because you have a stressful situation as it is so why add more complexity right now?

The good thing for me is that I didn't feel stressed at all from the move to $25NL. I'm properly rolled for it so the increase in stakes didn't effect me at all. I just know that when it's time to make that jump to $50NL, things are going to be a ton different so I just rather start working on things now rather than later.

***BTW, thanks for the feedback guys!

Hello,

Do not construct 3 bet calling range. For reduce % ft3bet just increase your 4 bet range. What do you mean saying ft3bet too high? If it is 70 it's okey.

You can call 3 bet some of the time vs villain's high % 3 bet, but do this mainly with position.

Also remember that: When OOP the smaller mistake is to call 3 bet too tight than too loose.

I was folding to a lot of 3 bets as well- I started flatting IP, I don't like 4b bluffing except against very high 3b types who can fold which seem pretty rare at 10NL. With the exception of the blinds people tend to 3b pretty honestly and it typically is strong- this is just my general observation though, again from 10NL.

There are a lot of people who are 3b happy from the blinds, and will fire and give up on the flop- these are super profitable positions.

I do not recommend constructing a 3bet calling range OOP (it`s just a recommendation and it`s a matter of your game plan) because as you will go higher in stakes ppl will hand read a bit better and if you won`t balance that range (well you don`t need to worry about that just yet) with strong hands (KK+) and that is almost always losing value by not 4beting those hands, you will get run over postflop. Just look at the situation like you have medium strength hand, OOP vs a decent hand reading guy, what good can happen? And how often?

Yeah Tuneman, you did used to fold a lot to 3bets

if you like to look at these spots like this mathematically:

if hero is dealt XX and opens to 3bb and villain has a 3b% of 10%. if our game plan is to always fold XX to a 3bet then our expected result is: 10% * 3bb: - 0.3bb

so when we try to weigh our other options (call or 4-bet) we have to at least be able to win more then - 0.3bb. this is a very very small loss and imo tough to beat by calling OOP without a very good post flop plan. constructing a calling range is one thing, but actually playing that range is another thing. i.e. how well do you figure to navigate postflop through a cbet and possible double barrel on various board textures? same things apply to calling IP only less extreme since we have positional advantage obv

you could extend that little game tree analysis much further to visualise and add the EVs together but its just some things to consider. there really is no such thing as "folding too much to 3bets" UNTIL you prove that you are getting heavily exploited by folding at whatever frequency that you are folding.

It's totally normal at your stakes to have an absurdly high fold to 3bet%, they aren't 3bet bluffing you so why shouldn't you fold when they are telegraphing their hand strength? I probably fold AK UTG vs a 3bet from the blinds 100% of the time even at 200nl, it's not that big of a deal because the player's ranges are so obvious and they are not trying to exploit you at all.

I get what you're saying life and I understand the math behind it. I was going to give an example, however I just don't want to go through all of it right now.

What about a calling range IP as say open from CO and get 3bet by the SB?