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What a great quote. Some people think the glass is half full, some people think the glass is half empty.

Robert Anton Wilson thinks the glass will never run out of water no matter how much you drink.

To test his theory someone should have put him out in the desert with just a glass of water.

Can't watch that now, but will when I get the chance.

Industrializing countries are pollutors, and we have already gone through that and caused most of the problem today. However, though industrializing countries are polluting, no country pollutes like the US. Not to mention, industrializing countries are taking steps which the industrialized world did not when they were in process. So, a sliding scale in which the countries who have historically polluted the most and continue to do so, should reduce much more than industrializing countries who should still reduce some as well, makes absolute sense. The 3rd world isn't overly penalized and the 1st world starts to actually do something about the shit they are responsible for. It is the height of absurdity when someone says the US shouldn't stop unless India does too. They are unequal perpetrators, and the whole idea that I don't have to do it because Billy doesn't have to should've vanished from people minds by age 12.

Watch the video, it deals specifically with this kind of stuff. Basically Rubin advocates a combination of carbon taxes and tariffs penalizing both 1st world and 3rd world equally.

..........Do we know for sure man is causing global warming? No. Should we take it seriously?
On ice melting alone, absolutely.............

Misinformation comes from all sides....because it is a lot of guessing/predictions (climate).
As in all topics, all sides should be held accountable for misinformation, IMO.

Here is Al Gore (2009) presenting another prediction from a scientist who claims......
"....there is a 75% chance that the entire North polarized cap....during some summer months....could be completely ice-free.....within the next 5-7 years"

So, it is simple math......the prediction made in 2009:
. . . . Hypothesis: 100% ice-free North polar cap. (or close to it)
. . . . Finish Date of experiment: .......2014-2016

This goes along with many of his other GW predictions (backed by scientists) that the oceans would rise 20 feet......and his myths about the polar bears.

This is interesting.....because the world gave Al Gore an Oscar and a Nobel Peace Prize.....for GW.
Do we just ignore him now?
Do we ever hold him (and his scientists) accountable?
.......In all of his presentations, he is citing other pro-GW scientists.

I'm just curious Sneakers, how do you explain the fact that 97% of climate scientists say climate change is real? Do you know anything they don't? Do you think somehow they all conspired in order to get more government funds for their research (nevermind the fact that the oil industry could surely pay them handsomely to show climate change is not a threat) ? How many climate scientists have you talked to? How many papers have you read?

Currently your few posts seem to just want to piss on the fire

Unless Techno pisses gasoline, this would be helpful, no? And if he pissed gasoline, we should film it and put it on Youtube.

@spew
You seem to be trying to discredit me. Great debate tactic, but avoids the misinformation and side-agendas given by pro-GW supporters. I obviously do not represent the scientific community in any way. I am only a part of the growing public that is more and more skeptical....

I'm just curious Sneakers, how do you explain the fact that 97% of climate scientists say climate change is real?

I believe this recycled number 97-98% is inflated by a lot.
1. How many are afraid to speak up.....
............and be discredited, lose their jobs, not receive grant monies, or even receive death threats?
2. Are you aware of the 30,000 opposing scientists that signed a petition against GW?
............this information is not acknowledged

Do you know anything they don't?

Do you believe that I believe this? or is this more sarcasm?

Do you think somehow they all conspired in order to get more government funds for their research (nevermind the fact that the oil industry could surely pay them handsomely to show climate change is not a threat) ?

Conspire? Too big of a scare going on for that, I think.
I look at conspiracy theories only with interest.

......The real question is, Are there other agendas at work?. Absolutely. This thread proves that by going on about resource control......and the justness/fairness......with a flavor of anti-capitalism.

If you look at that video of Gore (2009).....who else speaks at the UN ClimateChange conference? ............Hugo Chavez and Ahmadinejad.
** there is big applause when they go anti-capitalism in their UN speeches.
** Chavez has said that Capitalism is to blame for the extinction of life on Mars. Yeah, these two guys are great speakers at a Climate Change Conference. . . . Underlying agenda?

How many climate scientists have you talked to? How many papers have you read?

Again, I am Joe Public, questioning the information and scare predictions given to date.
...........A person would need to live in a cave without communication to not get that the world is coming to an end. It is in our face daily. Your questions seem to only want to discredit me..........shutdown any questioning or doubts.

Try defending the Gore predictions (and his scientists). That is what I am interested in hearing.
Gore is a Nobel Peace Prize recipient for GW. The world scientists (and you) supposedly agree with him......but no one seems to hold him (and his scientists) accountable for his numerous speeches and predictions.





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NOTE: break-time for me. way way behind in my studies. crap
What was I thinkin' starting a conversation like this. lol Huge time-eater.

Try defending the Gore predictions (and his scientists). That is what I am interested in hearing.
Gore is a Nobel Peace Prize recipient for GW. The world scientists (and you) supposedly agree with him......but no one seems to hold him (and his scientists) accountable for his numerous speeches and predictions.

Nobody's trying to defend the Gore predictions because they're obviously bogus, and so are the fringe scientists that may support him. Nothing Gore says is used in legitimate scientific discussion involving this issue. Do you think that the pro-GW side hinges on anything Gore says? If not then why do you keep bringing this up? Trying to discredit a whole group because of what one loon says that few people in that group agree with is just as nonsensical as a creationist saying evolution isn't true because a public figure said humans will become a new species in 10 years and it hasn't happened yet... TICK TOCK!

Although yes if you think that the world scientists (as us) agree with Gore's predictions then I can see how you would think GW is a cult/religion. Fortunately this isn't the case.

Unless Techno pisses gasoline, this would be helpful, no? And if he pissed gasoline, we should film it and put it on Youtube.

My dream is to have all cars run on Techno piss in the future.

My dream is to have all cars run on Techno piss in the future.

"Mornin Techno. Fill er up, half a tank."

Comes in 3 ratings:
- Hydrated
- Dehydrated
- Asparagus

Sneakers said this

@spew
You seem to be trying to discredit me. Great debate tactic, but avoids the misinformation and side-agendas given by pro-GW supporters. I obviously do not represent the scientific community in any way. I am only a part of the growing public that is more and more skeptical....

Then mitch was like...

Nobody's trying to defend the Gore predictions because they're obviously bogus, and so are the fringe scientists that may support him. Nothing Gore says is used in legitimate scientific discussion involving this issue. Do you think that the pro-GW side hinges on anything Gore says? If not then why do you keep bringing this up? Trying to discredit a whole group because of what one loon says that few people in that group agree with is just as nonsensical as a creationist saying evolution isn't true because a public figure said humans will become a new species in 10 years and it hasn't happened yet... TICK TOCK!

This is the reason no one ever takes you seriously Sneakers.

My dream is to have all cars run on Techno piss in the future.

Robert Anton Wilson wins again.

Yeah sneakers I'm getting the impression that while in reality

Al Gore : CC :: Jamie Gold : Poker

you see it more as

Al Gore:CC::Steven Hawking:Black holes

which is pretty clearly not accurate. Two other points:

1) A scientist stands behind his/her data if he/she has integrity. We are a kind folk, by and large, and people with dissenting viewpoints are encouraged if they have data/evidence. Also, there's great prestige in being the one guy who overturns a commonly-held understanding. So I think the pressure to tamp down anti-CC science is extremely minimal. I think you're attributing a ton of bad motives and behaviors to a group that by and large is interested in the objective truth and not much else. I can't really take anything else you say seriously after you do something like that.
2) I'm pretty sure that 97% number is based on who published what where (and how prestigious the authors were), not a survey of people's beliefs. If it was a survey, it was certainly blinded.

@spew
You seem to be trying to discredit me. Great debate tactic, but avoids the misinformation and side-agendas given by pro-GW supporters. I obviously do not represent the scientific community in any way. I am only a part of the growing public that is more and more skeptical....

I think it is a great thing that you are skeptical. People should be skeptical and pursue knowledge. What we find frustrating is that you seem a little reluctant to dig into the dirt and really try to understand some of the science behind the claims. I think that would make the debate a lot more constructive.

We do not need you or anyone else pissing in this thread

But pissing in this thread just feels so....right. Must be the global warming sensation.