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identifier

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2141 posts
Joined 07/2008

No, when I say nothing is good/evil or right/wrong, it's absolute, so trying to argue that some circumstance may merit one of these labels is pointless.



And yet I still assert rape is wrong. Why is that?

Posted about 2 years ago

mitch

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2039 posts
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maglame

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1015 posts
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Nothing is good/evil or right/wrong, these are simply labels made up by us.


I disagree. Sam Harris uses health as an example: Who are we to say what is healthy and not healthy? Certainly we don't know everything about health, but does this make scientific study of, and logical reasoning about, health meaningless? Do I really not have grounds to say that throwing up constantly for a long period of time means you aren't healthy?

Posted about 2 years ago

CDoubleU

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174 posts
Joined 09/2008

And yet I still assert rape is wrong. Why is that?



because you are missing the point.

Posted about 2 years ago

Tuneman07

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381 posts
Joined 06/2011

Causing something, letting something happen, and using something that has already happened are 3 different things.

Causing 9/11 was impossible.

Letting it happen= less impossible, but pretty unlikely for a lot of the same reasons causing it is impossible.

Using it= absolutely happening.

Posted about 2 years ago

identifier

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because you are missing the point.



I promise you I'm not.

Do you believe all moral judgements (eg rape is morally wrong) are untrue or that they are neither true nor false?

Posted about 2 years ago

CDoubleU

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174 posts
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I disagree. Sam Harris uses health as an example: Who are we to say what is healthy and not healthy? Certainly we don't know everything about health, but does this make scientific study of, and logical reasoning about, health meaningless? Do I really not have grounds to say that throwing up constantly for a long period of time means you aren't healthy?



What does one have to do with the other? Health is obv quantifiable while good/evil right/wrong is clearly subjective.

Posted about 2 years ago

mitch

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CW is your position that like... events are just events, things happening. Then we put right/wrong etc on it. So someone being raped is just something happening?

Edit: Btw if you stopped using one liners and explained yourself we might make some headway here.

Posted about 2 years ago

maglame

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What does one have to do with the other? Health is obv quantifiable while good/evil right/wrong is clearly subjective.


I don't see how one is clearly quantifiable. You still have to say something like "living longer is better", or "not feeling pain is good" to say anything about what is and is not healthy.

Posted about 2 years ago

nawhead

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2485 posts
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And yet I still assert rape is wrong. Why is that?


in mythology, rape (or more like abduction) has been a necessary means to build a nation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rape_of_the_Sabine_Women

and then there is the practice of conquering armies taking foreign wives in order build relationships with the conquered people. but the practice of abducting wives is still common and accepted in some parts of the world. and courtship and sexual conventions vary widely across time and culture.

and forced/arranged marriages are super common still. technically, the whole affair is non-consensual.

Posted about 2 years ago

identifier

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2141 posts
Joined 07/2008

in mythology, rape (or more like abduction) has been a necessary means to build a nation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rape_of_the_Sabine_Women

and then there is the practice of conquering armies taking foreign wives in order build relationships with the conquered people. maybe it was Alexander the Great? or Genghis Khan? not sure. but i think the practice of abducting wives is still common and accepted in some parts of the world.



I'd challenge that rape is a "necessary means to build a nation" on both moral and practical grounds.

And I very much doubt the abducted wives accept it particularly well.

Posted about 2 years ago

CDoubleU

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174 posts
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I don't see how one is clearly quantifiable. You still have to say something like "living longer is better", or "not feeling pain is good" to say anything about what is and is not healthy.



No, you have to say "living longer is healthy" or "not feeling pain is healthy" as healthy is defined as being free from illness, injury, and pain, I think both of these statements apply.

Posted about 2 years ago

identifier

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2141 posts
Joined 07/2008

What does one have to do with the other? Health is obv quantifiable while good/evil right/wrong is clearly subjective.



Hang on. Before you said "nothing is good/evil or right/wrong, it's absolute." now you say "good/evil right/wrong is clearly subjective". Which is it?

Posted about 2 years ago

maglame

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No, you have to say "living longer is healthy" or "not feeling pain is healthy" as healthy is defined as being free from illness, injury, and pain, I think both of these statements apply.


But, as you claimed for good and bad, "these are simply labels made up by us".

So why can't we say that humans suffering some maximum imaginable amount of pain, for no good reason, is bad? And as such causing people some maximum imaginable amount of pain, for no good reason, would be evil?

Posted about 2 years ago

Zavodovski

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138 posts
Joined 01/2012

Hang on. Before you said "nothing is good/evil or right/wrong, it's absolute." now you say "good/evil right/wrong is clearly subjective". Which is it?




I think he meant he was absolute in his rejection of there being any absolute/universal moral values, so that's not a contradiction.

Although I have to say I don't buy in to this extreme moral relativist position that CDoubleU is touting.

Posted about 2 years ago




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