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No, when I say nothing is good/evil or right/wrong, it's absolute, so trying to argue that some circumstance may merit one of these labels is pointless.

And yet I still assert rape is wrong. Why is that?

A little of topic but a really interesting book arguing objective morality http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Moral_Landscape

Lecture he gave on it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTKf5cCm-9g&ob=av3e

Nothing is good/evil or right/wrong, these are simply labels made up by us.

I disagree. Sam Harris uses health as an example: Who are we to say what is healthy and not healthy? Certainly we don't know everything about health, but does this make scientific study of, and logical reasoning about, health meaningless? Do I really not have grounds to say that throwing up constantly for a long period of time means you aren't healthy?

And yet I still assert rape is wrong. Why is that?

because you are missing the point.

Causing something, letting something happen, and using something that has already happened are 3 different things.

Causing 9/11 was impossible.

Letting it happen= less impossible, but pretty unlikely for a lot of the same reasons causing it is impossible.

Using it= absolutely happening.

because you are missing the point.

I promise you I'm not.

Do you believe all moral judgements (eg rape is morally wrong) are untrue or that they are neither true nor false?

I disagree. Sam Harris uses health as an example: Who are we to say what is healthy and not healthy? Certainly we don't know everything about health, but does this make scientific study of, and logical reasoning about, health meaningless? Do I really not have grounds to say that throwing up constantly for a long period of time means you aren't healthy?

What does one have to do with the other? Health is obv quantifiable while good/evil right/wrong is clearly subjective.

CW is your position that like... events are just events, things happening. Then we put right/wrong etc on it. So someone being raped is just something happening?

Edit: Btw if you stopped using one liners and explained yourself we might make some headway here.

What does one have to do with the other? Health is obv quantifiable while good/evil right/wrong is clearly subjective.

I don't see how one is clearly quantifiable. You still have to say something like "living longer is better", or "not feeling pain is good" to say anything about what is and is not healthy.

And yet I still assert rape is wrong. Why is that?

in mythology, rape (or more like abduction) has been a necessary means to build a nation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rape_of_the_Sabine_Women

and then there is the practice of conquering armies taking foreign wives in order build relationships with the conquered people. but the practice of abducting wives is still common and accepted in some parts of the world. and courtship and sexual conventions vary widely across time and culture.

and forced/arranged marriages are super common still. technically, the whole affair is non-consensual.

in mythology, rape (or more like abduction) has been a necessary means to build a nation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rape_of_the_Sabine_Women

and then there is the practice of conquering armies taking foreign wives in order build relationships with the conquered people. maybe it was Alexander the Great? or Genghis Khan? not sure. but i think the practice of abducting wives is still common and accepted in some parts of the world.

I'd challenge that rape is a "necessary means to build a nation" on both moral and practical grounds.

And I very much doubt the abducted wives accept it particularly well.

I don't see how one is clearly quantifiable. You still have to say something like "living longer is better", or "not feeling pain is good" to say anything about what is and is not healthy.

No, you have to say "living longer is healthy" or "not feeling pain is healthy" as healthy is defined as being free from illness, injury, and pain, I think both of these statements apply.

What does one have to do with the other? Health is obv quantifiable while good/evil right/wrong is clearly subjective.

Hang on. Before you said "nothing is good/evil or right/wrong, it's absolute." now you say "good/evil right/wrong is clearly subjective". Which is it?

No, you have to say "living longer is healthy" or "not feeling pain is healthy" as healthy is defined as being free from illness, injury, and pain, I think both of these statements apply.

But, as you claimed for good and bad, "these are simply labels made up by us".

So why can't we say that humans suffering some maximum imaginable amount of pain, for no good reason, is bad? And as such causing people some maximum imaginable amount of pain, for no good reason, would be evil?

Hang on. Before you said "nothing is good/evil or right/wrong, it's absolute." now you say "good/evil right/wrong is clearly subjective". Which is it?

I think he meant he was absolute in his rejection of there being any absolute/universal moral values, so that's not a contradiction.

Although I have to say I don't buy in to this extreme moral relativist position that CDoubleU is touting.