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This guys has to be a troll, don't fuel him

xD

But can you or Mitch or anyone who prefer paleo explain why anyone should restrict their calories or otherwise get fat? Isn't it beneficial to eat much energy compared to not having energy? If I'd have the option to choose from 2000kcal of paleo foods per day and have beer belly vs 3000kcal from mostly fruit and have body fat % of 3-10... I would choose the fruit.

If I'd have the option to choose from 2000kcal of paleo foods per day and have beer belly vs 3000kcal from mostly fruit and have body fat % of 3-10... I would choose the fruit.

What are you talking about? Who said anything about low carb needing calorie restriction? Show me evidence that you can eat 3000-4000cal/day of fruit and not get fat (without expending anywhere near that much energy, which seems to be what you're implying). Youtube links and people saying they've done it don't count.

I mean do you actually understand how to debate these things? Have you read the thread before you came in here? People don't just throw out completely unsupported statements, which all of yours have been, they have something solid to back it up.

And another thing that people should remember is that don't take advice from people who sell powders/pills because it's a con. I find it interesting that many if not all of these paleo guys sell these things even though you should get enough protein from animal products no? It's just odd.

In short, health isn't in a pill or a powder, if a diet requires such things then it's not really a healthy diet. Many paleo people also require things like coffee to give them energy and it's also odd to me.

???

What are you talking about? Who said anything about low carb needing calorie restriction? Show me evidence that you can eat 3000-4000cal/day of fruit and not get fat (without expending anywhere near that much energy, which seems to be what you're implying). Youtube links and people saying they've done it don't count.

In that case I can't really give you evidence, but from what I've seen, eating 3000+ kcal from fruits and little amount of exercise is enough to make you look very very skinny. It happens to be so that when most of your energy comes from simple carbs, you don't really need to exercise much to be skinny.

In case you are interested though, this is just one of the many examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hat0A2LDioM&feature=plcp&context=C303f5b1UDOEgsToPDskIXL1Hdb9m6bTX9xqgaHdh4

And another thing that people should remember is that don't take advice from people who sell powders/pills because it's a con.

Totally agree. Instead we should listen to your main man Mr Morsend, the Naturopath who will cure your cancer at his clinic in 2-3months, or 45 days if you use a high amount of grapes.

Totally agree. Instead we should listen to your main man Mr Morsend, the Naturopath who will cure your cancer at his clinic in 2-3months, or 45 days if you use a high amount of grapes.

You talk as if it hasn't been done before haha. People cure cancers and tumors all the time with fruits and green juices.

I rest my case.

I rest my case.

As far as I know, even paleo diet has cured some amazing things that doctors couldn't cure. Are you aware of that?

haha this dude is amazing.

Is is Tecmo? Is it... Mitch? .. Hmm which one is it? Cant be real. On a poker forum?

This thread is getting hilarious. Reading Mikayoda posts is making me feel like I'm at a vegan convention- supposition after supposition presented as pure unquestionable fact.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFiT66QjEFI

Perhaps this will be interesting to someone. Hey, at least it's not Naturopath...

But is it true that these paleo gurus sell you protein powder, even though the diet is all-you-can-eat-meat?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFiT66QjEFI

Perhaps this will be interesting to someone. Hey, at least it's not Naturopath...

But is it true that these paleo gurus sell you protein powder, even though the diet is all-you-can-eat-meat?

no its not.

no its not.

What isn't?

Maybe its just because I read the Steve Jobs biography recently but it really makes me sad that people will believe in naturopathy and similar "cures" and avoid getting real medical help. The prevailing opinion of the book was that Jobs' cancer killed him much more quickly than it might have because he spent months and months avoiding treatment and trying to heal himself with his fruitarian diet, before eventually getting real help when the cancer had spread significantly.

Maybe its just because I read the Steve Jobs biography recently but it really makes me sad that people will believe in naturopathy and similar "cures" and avoid getting real medical help. The prevailing opinion of the book was that Jobs' cancer killed him much more quickly than it might have because he spent months and months avoiding treatment and trying to heal himself with his fruitarian diet, before eventually getting real help when the cancer had spread significantly.

I've read from many sources and nowhere it says he tried fruitarian diet for cancer cure. I only could find that he tried vegan. How is it really?

Just saying this because it's very ineffective to go vegan for cancer cure and it really depends what you eat, you can be vegan and eat 100% McDonald's and you will end up getting cancer.

"Instead, he tried a vegan diet, acupuncture, herbal remedies and other treatments he found online, and even consulted a psychic."

I really liked the part where nawhead stated his preference for the LCHF diet due to his personal observation and then later points out that clinical > observational studies.

xD

But can you or Mitch or anyone who prefer paleo explain why anyone should restrict their calories or otherwise get fat? Isn't it beneficial to eat much energy compared to not having energy? If I'd have the option to choose from 2000kcal of paleo foods per day and have beer belly vs 3000kcal from mostly fruit and have body fat % of 3-10... I would choose the fruit.

Refer to back my post on page 20 regarding "energy" and "glucose needs".....

Maybe its just because I read the Steve Jobs biography recently but it really makes me sad that people will believe in naturopathy and similar "cures" and avoid getting real medical help. The prevailing opinion of the book was that Jobs' cancer killed him much more quickly than it might have because he spent months and months avoiding treatment and trying to heal himself with his fruitarian diet, before eventually getting real help when the cancer had spread significantly.

next time, please spoiler alert.........

Hi Mika, I'm definitely not as well read or knowledgable on these subjects as you are, but this:

I also prefer to take advice from/trust people who get results so, suppose I had a cancer, I would never ever do chemo just because doctors suggest it, simply because it's a death sentence. You don't heal disease by attacking it, you must fix the cause.

Do you really believe this? Maybe I'm just overly sensitive to this particular topic but chemo seemed to do a pretty good job on me.

I had cancer at 15 and knew many who battled it from infancy on up. What causes (generally) are you attributing to this phenomena that would be fixed by changing diet? There were babies and small children who didn't make it to the elementary school because cancer and leukemia got them. If you had a child with cancer would you treat them with diet and lifestyle changes?

Please know that I'm not trying to be rude or condescending I'm just truly interested in your view point.

Thanks
WoT

Figuring out health stuff has to be the biggest pain in the ass, much more so than game theory

Can anyone link me to the one(or a few) most convincing article/journal on high-fat diets?

Fruit is complex carb so you can basically eat them as much as you want and not get fat, even 3000-4000kcal per day.

Statements like this are what are causing people to react so viscerally, MikaYoda. They aren't grounded in any science whatsoever and are the poker equivalent of someone saying "when I have Aces I never win so I just don't play them."

Fruit is fine in moderation - especially when you time the eating of it right. However, it cannot be metabolized directly and excess fruit-based energy stores are converted to fat by the liver. It certainly can not be eaten to the extent of 3000-4000cal/day without serious negative health implications:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18395287 (link between fatty liver disease & excess fructose consumption)

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/28/health/28zuger.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6vpFV6Wkl4

Rob

Figuring out health stuff has to be the biggest pain in the ass, much more so than game theory

Can anyone link me to the one(or a few) most convincing article/journal on high-fat diets?

Take a look at the youtube video I just linked to - you can pull plenty of resources by looking at the studies/information Taubes cites.

Rob

934 MB on dial-up, here we go!

oooooooh it's gone down from 3 days to 2 days

Also, how bad is beer really? What should I be limiting to. Is it just a no go? Any alternatives?

Depends if you're doing it for the taste or primarily to get a buzz on. One beer has anywhere from like 110-150 calories where a shot of vodka has like 70.