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The quote "we are not samurais" comes to mind....

Any time there is lots of money involved - there will be cheaters, scams, collusion, etc. I think this also holds true for live play as well, the internet just makes it easier.

There have been many, many, many scandals at the high stakes of poker, this one is a truly ballsy one I gotta say. Most the people caught have fairly little happen to them, maybe hand-slapped by the community - they just come back with a different name or disappear to rub the money on their titties. I hesitate to think of how much cheating is actually out there, we would all like to think its an honest game - Im just not sure. Im not trying to be one of those "online poker is rigged" people, but these situations really dont help that line of thinking. Someone thats curious if online poker is legit can find these articles fairly easy with a google search and conclude online poker cannot be trusted.

Im sure had he not been busted this scam is still going to continue... I was young once, I was stupid too (still am), yet I never cheated anyone out of anything. I did a great many stupid things but I only hurt myself through these actions. Being young is not an excuse to do something even my 6-year old daughter would know is wrong.

Apology from Girah not accepted and I hope he gets whatever sort of book thrown at him that is possible.

Apology from Girah not accepted and I hope he gets whatever sort of book thrown at him that is possible.

Play Poker Like the Pros should be thrown at him, hard. Then, just when he thinks it's all over...POP 'EM ON THE RIVER.

I had a recent discussion about whether or not public figures (athletes, music stars, etc) should be held to a "higher standard.". I'm absolutely not condoning what this kid did, but, in fairness to him, I think it's rather unfair, and possibly ludicrous, to expect our heroes, or him, to have a "higher standard" when they never asked to be our heroes. Should we have expected Amy Winehouse not to use drugs, drink, or engage in activities that would harm her and her public image? Should we have expected this Girah kid not to be a scumbug when it's quite possible that so much of him is nothing but scumbag?

Does winning the genetic lottery at birth and being able to drill 3 pointers, pound a fastball into the upper deck, or play the guitar like a 5-fingered Deity also mean the person was born a hero? Maybe, we need to reevaluate what it means to be a hero.

I don't see how he's being held to a higher standard than everyone else?

I am not expecting higher standards for him than others. I don't find it acceptable for anybody to befriend a group of people and then steal their money. There is no comparison at all with Amy Winehouse, who has most people's compassion after failing to come to terms with her various problems. There are those - probably like Amy Winehouse - who struggle to cope with the public glare. Lets not confuse that with this guy who steals from his friends.

I am not writing him off completely, I hope he learns from this and does something useful with his life - perhaps after a stretch in prison. I can't see it being in poker but its possible he will do something good in another field.

Or that it wouldn't shock me at all to see FTP never pay US players back?

Still rubbing this in people's faces hey?

I had a recent discussion about whether or not public figures (athletes, music stars, etc) should be held to a "higher standard.". I'm absolutely not condoning what this kid did, but, in fairness to him, I think it's rather unfair, and possibly ludicrous, to expect our heroes, or him, to have a "higher standard" when they never asked to be our heroes. Should we have expected Amy Winehouse not to use drugs, drink, or engage in activities that would harm her and her public image? Should we have expected this Girah kid not to be a scumbug when it's quite possible that so much of him is nothing but scumbag?

Does winning the genetic lottery at birth and being able to drill 3 pointers, pound a fastball into the upper deck, or play the guitar like a 5-fingered Deity also mean the person was born a hero? Maybe, we need to reevaluate what it means to be a hero.

No one is holding him to a higher standard - at most the same standard we would hold 99% of the public. He cheated, he violated the trust of "friends", he wanted to cover it up and deny it - I wouldnt accept that from the lowest levels of society.

He wasnt close to being a hero for me - in fact I think this was all some elaborate scam. I read his "prodigy" thread and saw his claims and thought "LOLheater", he may have be smart, but as that other link to a 2+2 thread stated its not hard to sound smart when having time to compose your posts.

Funny, that it has been well over 3 years yet this post by Ansky still is very relevant
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip/open-letter-community-beyond-integrity-104233/

I must have misread, or misinterpreted, "The End of A Hero."

Funny, that it has been well over 3 years yet this post by Ansky still is very relevant
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip/open-letter-community-beyond-integrity-104233/

Wow. Thanks for posting. Too bad more people don't think like him.

I agree that people have some weird standards on who they consider heroes. I just don't see a double standard going on here.

Good grief, but I hate so much about 2+2. The level of discourse over there is one step below a lynch mob.

This Girah kid is clearly an idiot, a criminal, and deserving of banishment from the poker community. Frankly, from the modest amount I read, I think the ultimate punishment for the guy is going to be the fact that he's a joke and an outcast. He clearly had a HUGE sweet tooth for fame and respect, which is gone forever now. He's young, though, so I hope he finds a way to move forward with lessons learned and new resolve to not take shortcuts and does well in life in an arena outside of poker.

As for Haseeb and Jungleman, it really seems to me that they're guilty of mostly some bad judgment. Who among us isn't, from time to time? I don't get the sense they attempted to do anything malicious.

This scandal is just another in a long line of issues that occur when people in the poker community tangle their affairs up with one another too easily. Short of my immediate family and very close friends (meaning, people I have known and loved for years), there is no way I involve myself in a high-risk financial endeavor with anyone. And, yet, people in the poker community do it all the time and without much thought (and often with people they've never even met face-to-face). Utterly baffling to me.

Wow, I didn't read the 2+2thread, but it's well known in russian poker community that Max Katz is not honest player. Victim's screen name on Ipoker was MaxKatz1. There are stories of him and his team colluding at some very high and sick levels. Karma is a bitch!

This Girah kid is clearly an idiot, a criminal, and deserving of banishment from the poker community. Frankly, from the modest amount I read, I think the ultimate punishment for the guy is going to be the fact that he's a joke and an outcast.

Unfortunate that it really isn't sufficient, isn't it? He's deserving of prison time. What he did was calculated and malicious fraud, presumably planned and carried out over a long period of time. He'll get off lightly if his only punishment is being a joke and an outcast in a very relatively small circle of people.

He's young, though, so I hope he finds a way to move forward with lessons learned and new resolve to not take shortcuts and does well in life in an arena outside of poker.

Age has nothing to do with it. Chances are a deceitful scumbag like this will end up in prison or dead at a very young age, not "doing well" in something outside of poker. This wasn't a once off mistake made in the heat of the moment, you have to remember that. He has had a taste for money now and if he can't get that in poker, I'm sure he'll switch to conning people elsewhere. Hey, I'm sure he'd make a great salesperson.

As for Haseeb and Jungleman, it really seems to me that they're guilty of mostly some bad judgment. Who among us isn't, from time to time? I don't get the sense they attempted to do anything malicious

Jungleman was perhaps naive, even foolish. Haseeb clearly has a much larger involvement in this that surpasses "bad judgement".

Jungleman was perhaps naive, even foolish. Haseeb clearly has a much larger involvement in this that surpasses "bad judgement".

Agree 100%. Haseeb is still defending the guy, claims his winnings were real, etc.